fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Well wages haven't recovered yet to 2008 levels, personal debt up, companies swimming in debt. We're even less able to deal with another downturn. Our standard of living is being eroded bit by bit...
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (92 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If the working man is a hedge fund boss who thinks shoes are a luxury that the actual working man couldn’t afford pre Brexit.
“So called experts”
You’ve really got nothing, have you?
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Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
What have you got ?
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Your personal version of downturn. Everyone has their own interpretation.
It doesn’t matter, that’s my point. You’d just say “so called experts” or “the world hasn’t ended like remainers predicted” or some other pitifully banal shite aimed to obfuscate the issue for people who are hard of thinking.
When it’s a bot on twitter, I get it. When it’s a shill journalist, I get it. When it’s a politician using division as a political weapon, I get it. But on this forum? Are you just fooling yourself in order to avoid facing an uncomfortable truth?
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
His comparison of Brexit to a pair of new shoes said it all. Just his usual simplified and vacuous nonsense.
Oh my, yes I saw that! Presumably the “pinch” in that analogy is somebodies else’s livelihood and not his.
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Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
what uncomfortable truth is that then ?
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
You're something of a nonsense expert on here. Vacuous is a great word. Well done.
How would you describe the first 5 years after brexit ? Would you give us lots of graphs and then endless paragraphs to show how well read you are ? Perhaps you need to assess your own self importance.
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Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
It's all our lives, even mine. But no point in wallowing in self pity is there ? Or is there ?
Astute
Well-Known Member
It depends how blind you want to be to the truth. The problem with brexit It is that the most vocal on both sides are the most blind. And that is through choice.
The trade we do with the EU would not be lost whatever happens. And we will end up with some sort of deal. Blah blah blah doesn't work with me. I prefer the truth.
Shall we try Thomas Cook? A British tour operator going under has been catastrophic in Spain. Yet we will still go on holiday. There will just be less going to Spain. Give us a no deal and what will happen to Spain? Give us a poor deal and what will happen to Spain? Oh yes I hear the EU will stick together.
There is the problem. The EU will stick together. But do they really care about the man on the street?
So if there is a no deal they will inject hundreds of millions of emergency funds into those affected. But will it reach the man on the street or will it go to those who run the companies affected?
How about the farmers affected? About half of the EU budget goes on food subsidies. It is mainly used to keep food prices artificially high. But where dies the money go? Is it the man on the street? No. It is the rich landowners most of the time. They are paid to grow nothing. But a bad deal will mean we will buy elsewhere. This will decimate those who sell to us. They will be left with a glut of food. So prices will drop. But the rich will just continue to take the money for doing nothing.
I seriously need a decent deal if we leave. I am in France right at this moment with my family. That is why I have left you all in peace from the diatribe that this thread has become. Paperwork? It is a bloody nightmare for even the simple things. Without a deal I will need to cover everything even more. But this doesn't mean I should join the blah blah group.
Yes it will be hard to start with if there is no deal. But only lunatics don't want a deal.
What is happening is a preservation of the rich. There is enough money wasted in the EU each year that would wipe out destitution in the EU. But the longer we go down the road the richer the rich get. The more the decisions are made for us. The more we stand together to keep it going.
But it doesn't matter. It is all about the idiots who voted leave.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Oh yes the so called experts. All of them have an opinion that differs to the next opinion. These are the same experts that got it wrong on there being a leave vote. But of course they will be right this time......
Yes there will be job losses. But hopefully if it all goes tits up....which I don't think it will....we can go back to making things instead of importing them because they are cheaper to buy than make. And all because we pay a decent wage.
I know that I have been constantly told that I am wrong for the last few years when I have said that the EU will relent right at the end. But they always do. That is why other countries have deals not available to anyone. But what it will look like is anyone's guess. The problem is that the doom mongers are the loudest.
We have a choice. Go to the British government to be in charge who are on the side of the rich or pay to have the EU in charge who are on the side of the rich.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Wow that’s a bizarre way to spin major UK concessions.
A customs border in the Irish Sea has always been on offer, it’s not something the EU has suddenly relented to.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yet another great response.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It was in fact May’s first deal until the DUP put the brakes on it which led to the second deal of the backstop. Certainly nothing new to see here.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No. It has a defined meaning. You lot are as bad as the post modernist SJWs. Inventing your own reality cos you don’t like everyone else’s. Facts don’t care about your opinion.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah, after all the talk of the EU caving because of the threat of no deal, it was us who caved. This, by the way, is our future: getting battered by large trading blocks.
Will all come down to Labour rebels I expect. The DUP will get mullered if they vote for this after all they’ve said. Not sure a referendum amendment will have the numbers. Going to be an interesting Saturday.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
They might get mullered if they vote against it also. The guardian putting it best.
DUP finds itself caught between the devil and the Irish sea
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It’ll be interesting to see the reaction as previously this was considered worse than May’s backstop by Brexiteers.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
If they vote against the deal, will Johnson have to expel them from the party?
1) Most experts have a broadly similar view on Brexit.
2) Polls showed a remain win. Polls collated during the referendum show leave only took the lead for a very short period of time either side of the vote during a period where they sunk a huge amount of money into targeted advertising.
3) We won’t go back to making things. The Brexiters plan is the opposite, see Minford. Every analysis shows the manufacturing industry will be badly damaged.
4) Maybe will over a concession at the last minute but the opposite seems to be happening. The idea they always give in at the last minute seems contentious and I think has been debunked.
5) As has been pointed out those other deals involve being a member of a specific aspect and not having the red lines we have. They’re not individual deals those countries bargained for, they’re mini deals where it just happens no other countries have opted for the same options.
6) It’s the Brexiters who have been the loudest for most of this process. That’s why we are where we are. Discussion, reason and debate has been overshadowed by slogans.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Bizarrely I expect the majority will vote for it
Francois didn’t look happy after speaking to him yesterday. I’m guessing they’ve been told that no no Brexit/threat of 2nd ref or something, who knows.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The weirdest thing is how the Brexiters have been clear as day for what their vision is: low tax, low regulation, destroy manufacturing, destroy agriculture and import cheap food with lower standards, increase immigration from outside the EU. Yet people still have this pipe dream.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s a cult. It doesn’t matter how ridiculous it gets they’ll continue following it. Boris is the Charles Manson of politics.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Of course they will. As I have constantly said the majority of MP's don't want to leave. This is all parties. Thus us why I still don't think we will leave for ages.....if we do leave.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Does he want to end up with the smallest main party?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So only remainers will vote against it then? Is that what you’re saying?
Astute
Well-Known Member
All the rest is down to guesswork. This part is totally wrong.
Those who want to leave have been much quieter than those who want to stay. But it will change if it looks like we are not leaving or will be remaining by default.
Look at this thread. Honestly tell me where nearly all the noise is from.
Astute
Well-Known Member
This made me laugh.
It is people like yourself who says that it is the direction we will be going in. You are not a leaver.
This thread is irrelevant. Leavers won the media war. I will say the tide has turned recently but it was already too late by then. Even the governments position was distorted by the leavers in the Tory party. If May had aimed for a compromise soft Brexit we’d be long gone by now.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
What do you think about the ITV poll today of 26,000 people where 54% think we should honour the referendum and leave