The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (55 Viewers)

[djr8369]

It does depend on the country. In the US Corbyn would be consider an uber-Communist. Over there the likes of Obama, Hilary etc are considered left wing. Over here they'd be slightly to the right. Even Bernie Sanders would be considered a centrist here.

I think over here we've the 'centre' shift to the right economically, but to the left socially.

Yes, interesting points. I think part of the change over here is the Americanisation of our culture. Even Brexit is a symptom of that. We’re increasingly seeing ourselves as more American than European and the internet has accelerated that process.

I’ve got friends who get into American commentators, your Jordan Peterson types, and you can just see them change as there values start to alter.


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[Astute]

Yes it does indeed work both ways but I suspect your last sentence is correct.


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So it works both ways when someone else says it but when I say it there is only one way it will go. This yet again tells me everything I need to know.

 

[djr8369]

So it works both ways when someone else says it but when I say it there is only one way it will go. This yet again tells me everything I need to know.

Well you didn’t say that.


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[Astute]

Well you didn’t say that.


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Yes I did but you twisted what I said as usual

 

[djr8369]

Yes I did but you twisted what I said as usual

No you just didn’t say that. And I have never twisted your words. I have rewritten your words in order to make them more coherent so I can have a discussion with you and you’ve had a tantrum. As usual I go out of my way to be polite and try to engage with you and you just make accusations.

Does it not tell you something that nearly every poster here has made similar comments about your communication style and given up trying to converse with you?

If you do want to have a discussion I’m always open but you have to make the effort too.

Good luck in your endeavours of trying to move abroad with your family.


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[CCFCSteve]

Lol.

There’s nuances though that people choose to ignore.

Johnson wanted an alternative to the backstop with checks away from border. This was rejected and it was argued risked the GFA

From what I’ve read the new ‘backstop alternative’ allows NI to benefit from new UK trade deals. They will have to follow EU rules on food standards etc but certainly in the short to medium term these are unlikely to significantly diverge from our own. The NI assembly will have the ability to vote to remain in this arrangement every four years. It is in their hands.

I don’t like NI being treated differently to the rest of the UK but attempts have been made to minimise this and as we all know it’s a unique situation in Ireland.

It’s complicated/messy but no deal was likely to lead to far worse problems for NI/Ireland.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes, interesting points. I think part of the change over here is the Americanisation of our culture. Even Brexit is a symptom of that. We’re increasingly seeing ourselves as more American than European and the internet has accelerated that process.

I’ve got friends who get into American commentators, your Jordan Peterson types, and you can just see them change as there values start to alter.

We've been aping US culture for quite some time now but I guess as they have so many TV shows etc shown on British TV it almost feels like 'our' culture at times especially to the young as shows are released here at pretty much the same time as the US.

Another thing I've just remembered about the difference between the UK and US politically - that infowars nutter on Newsnight and the other US commentator who called Andrew Neil 'left wing'. :emoji_laughing:

 

[Astute]

No you just didn’t say that. And I have never twisted your words. I have rewritten your words in order to make them more coherent so I can have a discussion with you and you’ve had a tantrum. As usual I go out of my way to be polite and try to engage with you and you just make accusations.

Does it not tell you something that nearly every poster here has made similar comments about your communication style and given up trying to converse with you?

If you do want to have a discussion I’m always open but you have to make the effort too.

Good luck in your endeavours of trying to move abroad with your family.


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Me make the effort? I have about given up. That is why I only point out the bullshit these days.

 

[djr8369]

We've been aping US culture for quite some time now but I guess as they have so many TV shows etc shown on British TV it almost feels like 'our' culture at times especially to the young as shows are released here at pretty much the same time as the US.

Another thing I've just remembered about the difference between the UK and US politically - that infowars nutter on Newsnight and the other US commentator who called Andrew Neil 'left wing'. :emoji_laughing:

Second one was Ben Shapiro (somebody my friends mentioned above tried to tell me was a reasonable right of centre commentator but as far as I can tell is an idiot and a shill). Didn’t realise somebody from Infowars had been on newsnight but that is absurd.

Not sure if the point you’re making is that we’re resisting the outright crazies over here at the moment? I wonder how long that will last though.


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[Astute]

There’s nuisances though that people choose to ignore.

Johnson wanted an alternative to the backstop with checks away from border. This was rejected and it was argued risked the GFA

From what I’ve read the new ‘backstop alternative’ allows NI to benefit from new UK trade deals. They will have to follow EU rules on food standards etc but certainly in the short to medium term these are unlikely to significantly diverge from our own. The NI assembly will have the ability to vote to remain in this arrangement every four years. It is in their hands.

I don’t like NI being treated differently to the rest of the UK but attempts have been made to minimise this and as we all know it’s a unique situation in Ireland. Also, there is no reason why a free trade agreement can’t be reached with the EU which will mean tariffs won’t be payable post transition period (even though rebates would be given if they were)

It’s complicated/messy but no deal was likely to lead to far worse problems for NI/Ireland.

Even if there was a massive pot of gold for the UK it would be a very bad deal as it could mean we leave the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

No you just didn’t say that. And I have never twisted your words. I have rewritten your words in order to make them more coherent so I can have a discussion with you and you’ve had a tantrum. As usual I go out of my way to be polite and try to engage with you and you just make accusations.

Does it not tell you something that nearly every poster here has made similar comments about your communication style and given up trying to converse with you?

If you do want to have a discussion I’m always open but you have to make the effort too.

Good luck in your endeavours of trying to move abroad with your family.


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wasting your time, anyone who has an opposing view or challenges ‘the truth’/his opinion is accused of all sorts and eventually blocked. In the end it’ll just be him and Grendel on this thread when he logs in.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Second one was Ben Shapiro (somebody my friends mentioned above tried to tell me was a reasonable right of centre commentator but as far as I can tell is an idiot and a shill). Didn’t realise somebody from Infowars had been on newsnight but that is absurd.

Not sure if the point you’re making is that we’re resisting the outright crazies over here at the moment? I wonder how long that will last though.

I got it wrong - it wasn't Newsnight. It was Alex Jones on Sunday Politics.

But yeah at the moment we're resisting the total lunatics of the far right from the US, but as we've seen with the tactics Alexander used in his leadership bid they are creeping in.

 

[djr8369]

I got it wrong - it wasn't Newsnight. It was Alex Jones on Sunday Politics.

Goodness. Why would you have that nutter on?


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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

 

[Sick Boy]

HAHAHAHA! He’s the one who Farage does regular interviews with to spread made up crap, imagine actually voting for someone who’s aligned with him. Wow.

 

[fernandopartridge]

There’s nuisances though that people choose to ignore.

Johnson wanted an alternative to the backstop with checks away from border. This was rejected and it was argued risked the GFA

From what I’ve read the new ‘backstop alternative’ allows NI to benefit from new UK trade deals. They will have to follow EU rules on food standards etc but certainly in the short to medium term these are unlikely to significantly diverge from our own. The NI assembly will have the ability to vote to remain in this arrangement every four years. It is in their hands.

I don’t like NI being treated differently to the rest of the UK but attempts have been made to minimise this and as we all know it’s a unique situation in Ireland.

It’s complicated/messy but no deal was likely to lead to far worse problems for NI/Ireland.

Freudian slip there but there is no nuance about it.

 

[djr8369]

Trying to work out if I can bring myself to watch this.


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[chiefdave]

I don’t like NI being treated differently to the rest of the UK but attempts have been made to minimise this and as we all know it’s a unique situation in Ireland.

Wonder who said this "Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else, to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union".

 

[clint van damme]

Trying to work out if I can bring myself to watch this.


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Jones should be in jail. He's been indirectly responsible for people getting hurt due to his crackpot followers.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Trying to work out if I can bring myself to watch this.


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It's both butt-clenchingly bad yet hilarious.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Freudian slip there but there is no nuance about it.

Amended ta !

 

[Sick Boy]

Wonder who said this "Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else, to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union".

It’ll get ignored by the cap doffers and they’ll thank him as he takes their rights away

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

HAHAHAHA! He’s the one who Farage does regular interviews with to spread made up crap, imagine actually voting for someone who’s aligned with him. Wow.

The things was first time I saw it I was wondering what John Parrott was doing on the show.

 

[Sick Boy]

Jones should be in jail. He's been indirectly responsible for people getting hurt due to his crackpot followers.

Some of the crap him and Farage were coming out with in an interview was actually mind blowing.

 

[shmmeee]

When people voted leave they didn't vote for this deal did they


I don't actually think Corbyn is radically left wing.
Variations of most of his major policies can be found in major western economies, nationalised public transport, free tuition, central government bank etc.

I just think we've lurched that far too the right they are seen as radically left. I thi k it's called Overtons window or something.

For sure. Policies that would have been Tory staples on things like social housing or nationalised education are considered radical left now.

 

[djr8369]

It's both butt-clenchingly bad yet hilarious.

I watched it. It was worse than I thought.


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[djr8369]

Jones should be in jail. He's been indirectly responsible for people getting hurt due to his crackpot followers.

Indeed. You have to wonder about the people who listen to him.


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[shmmeee]

Yeah OK.

I think you’ve got to be pretty naive not to think the established media, civil service, armed forces, secret service, etc aren’t heavily against a left wing agenda. Most of them have been through some form of elite education and been taught how that class hangs onto things. Eton doesn’t produce many Labour MPs.

 

[djr8369]

Don’t know who this guy is but good summary of how far the situation has degenerated.


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[shmmeee]

Don’t know who this guy is but good summary of how far the situation has degenerated.


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Thought this was spot on:

 

[fernandopartridge]

Don’t know who this guy is but good summary of how far the situation has degenerated.


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I've followed him on twitter for a while, long time eurosceptic of the reasonable variety now remainer. He's a tory but does make reasonable points.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Thought this was spot on:

If you search back on this thread I'm sure I either posted or mentioned 'simplism' which came from one of his twitter threads. I've come to realise that's the world we live in now.... Even today at work I've just awarded a contract and the media / communications people want every detail condensed into a single line even though it isn't particularly complex in the first place.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Must say it’s interesting that after the Tories spent 2015 scaremongering about Labour endangering the union with an SNP alliance that they are managing to endanger it 10 ways from Sunday. Not to mention the half arsed defence they put up in 2014.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

It ain’t out there because right wing thought basically isn’t funny.

Edit: also if Top Gear is just a car show, then HIGNFY and Mock The Week are just gameshows.

Finding something funny is completely subjective though. Of course you don't think any right leaning comedy is funny because you're left wing and it doesn't sit well with you.

The comment about Top Gear is ludicrous. It's a car show. That's inherently what it is. Mock The Week has a stand up segment and is billed as a comedy. HIGNFY has a team captain who is a stand up and at least one comedian on the panel and a script written by comedians.

I can't quite believe I had to explain that.

 

[shmmeee]

Finding something funny is completely subjective though. Of course you don't think any right leaning comedy is funny because you're left wing and it doesn't sit well with you.

The comment about Top Gear is ludicrous. It's a car show. That's inherently what it is. Mock The Week has a stand up segment and is billed as a comedy. HIGNFY has a team captain who is a stand up and at least one comedian on the panel and a script written by comedians.

I can't quite believe I had to explain that.

And I can’t quite believe I have to explain that Top Gear was a scripted comedy car show. In the same way the Daily Show is a scripted comedy news show. It may have had knowledgable hosts, but it was primarily an entertainment show watched by people for the banter more than the cars.

The closest thing to right wing comedians are the Rod Liddle style columnists. There’s been some better stand up style comedians recently like the fella from the Mash Report, but I think generally to do stand up you need an element of self depreciation to make the audience like you that right wing comedy doesn’t lend itself to. The best right wing stand ups are almost taking the piss out of their own stereotype like the posh bloke who is on R4 a lot. I think he’s right wing anyway.