The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (70 Viewers)

[Astute]

Here: Strategies for Reading Comprehension :: Read Naturally, Inc.

Take that in. You’ll find you life far less frustrating.

Oh good. Now I am not highly educated because I can show where you contradict things or try and change the truth.

How about backing up what you say about the Labour vote? Because I can't find anything anywhere. This includes in pro Labour material. That is unless it is opinion pieces that show no evidence.

 

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[shmmeee]

Oh good. Now I am not highly educated because I can show where you contradict things or try and change the truth.

How about backing up what you say about the Labour vote? Because I can't find anything anywhere. This includes in pro Labour material. That is unless it is opinion pieces that show no evidence.

Swing and a miss!

 

[Astute]

Go on then. What’s Diane Abbott’s evil plan? I’m all ears.

And that’s not a comprehensive list, just off the top of my head FFS.

Just sick of this “hurr durr I’m so edgy all politicians are liars” bollocks. Especially so because since it’s become cool the number of outright liars and shits we’ve had in the public eye has increased. Because it lets in the likes of Farage and Johnson because they “tell it like it is”.

It’s lazy, dangerous thinking. Our fucking MPs aren’t evil for gods sake. Grow up.

So where did I say they are evil. Them words have only been seen from yourself here.

They are absolutely useless.

Abbott's evil plan? Apart from paying police officers £50 a year? Why don't you explain why she is so good?

 

[shmmeee]

Tell me what I have misconstrued.

It isn't me. You are making out that Labour and Corbyn are much stronger than they really are. You call Corbyn a liability but now you put him in the list of best MP's......with Abbott :shifty:

Please post where I said that was a list of the best MPs. Oh wait, you can’t. Because all your shit about other making stuff up is more projection than the Odeon.

Done with you now. I honestly mean what I say: either you have terrible reading skills and seriously need to improve them, or you are just making up shit because you can’t answer any of my points.

Either way it’s a waste of both our time.

 

[Astute]

Swing and a miss!

Is that right?

A comment that means nothing is all you can come out with shows you to be incorrect. Just like you trying to make out that I am thick. But your problem is that I am not.

And this is the problem we have with this Brexit disaster. Millions of people like yourself burying their heads in the sand and trying to twist everything hoping that it will go away.

 

[Astute]

Ken Clarke. Keir Starmer. Caroline Lucas. Dominic Grieve. Jess Phillips. Peter Kyle. Colleen Fletcher. Jim Cunningham. Lisa Nandy. Philip Hammond. Ed Milliband. Sarah Wollaston. Theresa May. I’d even say some of the hard Brexit lot, though I don’t know them as well, probably think they’re doing the best for their country. Not JRM but many seem genuine if incorrect. I’d probably include the likes of Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell as well.

Please post where I said that was a list of the best MPs. Oh wait, you can’t. Because all your shit about other making stuff up is more projection than the Odeon.

There you go.

 

[Sick Boy]

There you go.

And then he claims other twist words.

“Probably think they’re doing the best for their country” = the best MPs.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So Corbyn wants what Abbott says?

Maybe he does. That is the problem. He always wanted out of the EU. Now we are left trying to work out what exactly he does want.

Is the Telegraph good enough?

Jeremy Corbyn gave these excuses for blocking an election... and he sounded utterly desperate

This one explains it for you.

Who will win the next general election? The latest polls and odds

Tories first with about 37%. Labour second with about 22%. Doesn't correspond with your spin. Brexit party with about 11%. Lib Dems with about 20%.

Can you explain why Corbyn is the first ever leader of the opposition not to accept a general election?

We have only had the fixed term parliament act for a couple of parliaments so a little disingenuous

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think that’s a good shout. Get brexit delivered with anything other than a strong majority government will always be difficult. Great quote on some pro Europe site about making 1 deal a month will take over 50 years to get back what we are losing by leaving

 

[skybluetony176]

And then he claims other twist words.

“Probably think they’re doing the best for their country” = the best MPs.

It didn’t take him long to replace us. He’s going to end up blocking half the forum members before long because they’re “twisting” and “lying”. Couldn’t possibly be Astute.

 

[clint van damme]

The Dispatches special on C4 seems to be blowing the lid of the NHS being of the table to the US post Brexit. It seems at official and unofficial trade meetings since Boris said it’s definitely of the table drug prices have most definitely been on the table and without the safety in numbers membership of the EU we’re very much not taking back control and the US Pharmaceutical companies see the NHS as a free for all in dictating prices. Something that the EU has disempowered them from doing.

How do leave voters feel about this?
Considering the amount of deaths and bankruptcies linked to medical bills in the States are you not concerned?

 

[skybluetony176]

How do leave voters feel about this?
Considering the amount of deaths and bankruptcies linked to medical bills in the States are you not concerned?

Apparently not. The thing is as well Trump seems to be a driving force behind this and largely to address an imbalance between what the US pays for drugs compared to a lot of the developed world. Instead of using his power and influence to bring down drug prices in the US his idea is to make other nations pay more than they currently do to bring them in line with what the US is paying. Which is why he hates the EU, it’s too powerful for him to manipulate. Us on our own however?

 

[SBAndy]

Apparently not. The thing is as well Trump seems to be a driving force behind this and largely to address an imbalance between what the US pays for drugs compared to a lot of the developed world. Instead of using his power and influence to bring down drug prices in the US his idea is to make other nations pay more than they currently do to bring them in line with what the US is paying. Which is why he hates the EU, it’s too powerful for him to manipulate. Us on our own however?

Proves that this rhetoric that “the NHS is off the table” is disingenuous to the extreme. Yes, they may not literally sell off parts of the NHS but by agreeing something like this they bring the NHS to a point where it can no longer be supported by public funding and that’s that.

 

[shmmeee]

How do leave voters feel about this?
Considering the amount of deaths and bankruptcies linked to medical bills in the States are you not concerned?

If it’s said by the Brexit gods it must be Best For Britain(tm)

 

[skybluetony176]

Proves that this rhetoric that “the NHS is off the table” is disingenuous to the extreme. Yes, they may not literally sell off parts of the NHS but by agreeing something like this they bring the NHS to a point where it can no longer be supported by public funding and that’s that.

I was doing two things at once at the end of the program so didn’t catch everything in full what was said but I think it was said that if US pharmaceutical companies get their way the cost to the U.K. would equate to two thirds of the current NHS budget. Someone like FP who’s very up on the NHS might be able to shed some more light on what that means to the NHS. We send £360M a week to the EU, lets send it to US pharmaceutical companies instead.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not sure if it’s available on catchup but you can watch it through the C4 app Dispatches - Episode Guide - All 4 worth watching though.

 

[shmmeee]

There you go.

*sigh*

bazza said “all politicians have a hidden agenda”

I said “there are good and bad MPs”

you said “name the good ones”

I posted a non-exhaustive list of MPs off the top of my head I believe are in politics to make the country better with the disclaimer that I didn’t think they were all competent or that I agreed with them.

you said: “oh they’re the best MPs are they”

See the issue? If not you’re beyond help quite frankly.

Moreover, I posted it. I know what I meant better than you. You aren’t my ex wife, so don’t pretend you know my mind better than me.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is this right? NHS budget currently £134B, what we send to the EU a year £13B. If leaving the EU means that the NHS budget will be swallowed up by a £90B a year post Brexit drug deal where’s the maths for Brexit to add up on this one single issue alone? Please, someone tell me why those figures are wrong.

(Edit) just to add from what I can see the NHS currently spends £19M a year on drugs. Surely the government can’t be willingly taking us down this path.

(second edit) see SBAndy’s post for correct amount on the rise of drug prices to the NHS post Brexit it’s about half of what I stated here but still significant enough to outweigh what we send to the EU.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Can you explain why Corbyn is the first ever leader of the opposition not to accept a general election?

He won't be able to explain because he hasn't got a clue... in reality Corbyn is a chicken

 

[SBAndy]

I was doing two things at once at the end of the program so didn’t catch everything in full what was said but I think it was said that if US pharmaceutical companies get their way the cost to the U.K. would equate to two thirds of the current NHS budget. Someone like FP who’s very up on the NHS might be able to shed some more light on what that means to the NHS. We send £360M a week to the EU, lets send it to US pharmaceutical companies instead.

I’ve watched it on my commute this morning. It would mean a third of the current budget would be going on pharma costs. Up from £18bn (current cost) to £45bn, or £500m a week increase. Even if we were to send the bus commitment of £350m a week to the NHS we’re still having to find further funds.

 

[shmmeee]

Proves that this rhetoric that “the NHS is off the table” is disingenuous to the extreme. Yes, they may not literally sell off parts of the NHS but by agreeing something like this they bring the NHS to a point where it can no longer be supported by public funding and that’s that.

My worry is the left has spent so long saying the Tories want to kill the NHS, now we’ve got the few nutters who really do in charge the message won’t cut through.

 

[shmmeee]

He won't be able to explain because he hasn't got a clue... in reality Corbyn is a chicken

Because it was a rouse to get no deal.

You worked out why King Alex killed his own Brexit bill when it looked like passing?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Because it was a rouse to get no deal.

You worked out why King Alex killed his own Brexit bill when it looked like passing?

Because once he wins the election by a mile and teams with the brexit party, he can have a majority and go for what he wants

 

[shmmeee]

I’ve watched it on my commute this morning. It would mean a third of the current budget would be going on pharma costs. Up from £18bn (current cost) to £45bn, or £500m a week increase. Even if we were to send the bus commitment of £350m a week to the NHS we’re still having to find further funds.

We send £350m to the EU, lets line American pockets with it instead

 

[Astute]

He won't be able to explain because he hasn't got a clue... in reality Corbyn is a chicken

He knows he would lose. Nothing chicken. He isn't thick. But a few would like you to believe different.

 

[Astute]

Because it was a rouse to get no deal.

You worked out why King Alex killed his own Brexit bill when it looked like passing?

Of course it was. And of course you are never wrong even when all the evidence says the opposite.

 

[clint van damme]

Because once he wins the election by a mile and teams with the brexit party, he can have a majority and go for what he wants

you've said this before. If he wins the election by a mile why will he need to team up with the Brexit party?

Aren't you concerned about the revelations in the Dispatches program relating to the what would happen to the NHS in the event of a trade deal with the US?

 

[clint van damme]

Of course it was. And of course you are never wrong even when all the evidence says the opposite.

Phillip Hammond has sad the same think this morning.

 

[skybluetony176]

I’ve watched it on my commute this morning. It would mean a third of the current budget would be going on pharma costs. Up from £18bn (current cost) to £45bn, or £500m a week increase. Even if we were to send the bus commitment of £350m a week to the NHS we’re still having to find further funds.

Cheers for the confirmation, I was helping one of the kids with homework at the time so only had one ear on what was being said. Still ridiculous though. I’d love to here a leaver explain how Brexit works on this one single issue alone.

 

[Astute]

you've said this before. If he wins the election by a mile why will he need to team up with the Brexit party?

Aren't you concerned about the revelations in the Dispatches program relating to the what would happen to the NHS in the event of a trade deal with the US?

I don't think that Farage will get many seats if any at all.

 

[Astute]

Phillip Hammond has sad the same think this morning.

Heavy drinking session last night?

 

[shmmeee]

Phillip Hammond has sad the same think this morning.

I didn’t know Phillip Hammond knew who I was!

 

[Otis]

He won't be able to explain because he hasn't got a clue... in reality Corbyn is a chicken

Come on, Dom, are you trying to tell me that if the Tories were in opposition and they thought that they would lose any general election, that they would push for an election?

It's not about being chicken, it's about trying to give yourselves the best opportunity to win.

I don't think Labour ever will win under Corbyn, but that's besides the point.

 

[skybluetony176]

Worth a read Drug pricing trends in the EU versus in the US - Results Healthcare

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Come on, Dom, are you trying to tell me that if the Tories were in opposition and they thought that they would lose any general election, that they would push for an election?

It's not about being chicken, it's about trying to give yourselves the best opportunity to win.

I don't think Labour ever will win under Corbyn, but that's besides the point.

What's an Otis?