The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (165 Viewers)

[Grendel]

An article in the Mirror is a ‘barrage’?

Hardly a ringing endorsement here

Downing Street defends Brexit deal in face of fresh Trump blast

and was panned on the Jeremy Vine show this morning

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Could be an interesting Battle of the Charlatans if Farage makes good on his promise. Will the dumbasses fall behind the fat Etonian who cracks jokes, or the private trader who holds pints at every photo op?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

but no one wanted one only losers like you - what’s your point?

As originally stated-we now have one by proxy when we could've had one in considerably less time. Oh and we'd have moved on to the next stage of Brexit, or revoked it altogether and thus had a resolution. What happens if we get another hung Parliament G?

 

[Grendel]

As originally stated-we now have one by proxy when we could've had one in considerably less time. Oh and we'd have moved on to the next stage of Brexit, or revoked it altogether and thus had a resolution. What happens if we get another hung Parliament G?

I hope the electorate realises hung parliaments are a disaster for the country

 

[skybluetony176]

it would take a minimum of 22 weeks if you get an agreement in Parliament.

12 of which would be passing the legislation in parliament. Which makes an absolute mockery of Boris trying to push his deal through in three days.

 

[skybluetony176]

I hope the electorate realises hung parliaments are a disaster for the country

Which is an odd thing to say because the last one lasted a full term, no change in PM and a government that whether you agreed with them or not, liked them or not ended the term having largely achieved what they set out to do as an agreed coalition government. In modern terms that’s the nearest thing we’ve had to a functioning government in almost 10 years. Since the last majority government was voted in we’ve had a referendum that’s made half the country hate the other half of the country and vice versa, the very real prospect of the union ending, three PM’s (could be 4 yet), 2 extra general elections, politics dominated by one issue while the world burns and I’ll remind you that after the last majority won an election we wasn’t supposed to be back at the polls to elect a new government until May 2020.

I guess it depends on how you define disaster.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I hope the electorate realises hung parliaments are a disaster for the country

If we had better politicians and less partisan political stances they'd actually be much better. Otherwise we get massive swings all the time. Labour - increase spending due to chronic underinvestment beforehand followed by huge cuts by Tories to counter overspending.

A sensible hung parliament would see less chronic underinvestment under the Tories and less Labour ones overspending. Steady increases instead of peaks and troughs. Stops big business having too much of a say under Tories and Unions under Labour.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I hope the electorate realises hung parliaments are a disaster for the country

Guess another referendum's not looking so stupid by comparison eh old timer

 

[djr8369]

Hardly a ringing endorsement here

Downing Street defends Brexit deal in face of fresh Trump blast

and was panned on the Jeremy Vine show this morning

These seem to be more about the deal and/or Trump rather than criticising Trump for interfering with U.K. politics like the grief Obama got.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

These seem to be more about the deal and/or Trump rather than criticising Trump for interfering with U.K. politics like the grief Obama got.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The poor guy must still be hurting from getting booed at the World Series earlier in the week

 

[Grendel]

If we had better politicians and less partisan political stances they'd actually be much better. Otherwise we get massive swings all the time. Labour - increase spending due to chronic underinvestment beforehand followed by huge cuts by Tories to counter overspending.

A sensible hung parliament would see less chronic underinvestment under the Tories and less Labour ones overspending. Steady increases instead of peaks and troughs. Stops big business having too much of a say under Tories and Unions under Labour.

Another myth. The notion the Tories are somehow restrained on welfare spending is absurd but I suppose at least the “tough” image seems to work

they are appalling profligate on bunging money at the welfare state and have been for many years. The notion of true conservatism died decades ago and under Johnson - who in reality is more left leaning then Blair - heaven help us

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Another myth. The notion the Tories are somehow restrained on welfare spending is absurd but I suppose at least the “tough” image seems to work

they are appalling profligate on bunging money at the welfare state and have been for many years. The notion of true conservatism died decades ago and under Johnson - who in reality is more left leaning then Blair - heaven help us

So in your eyes reversing some of a decade's worth of cuts makes Johnson a lefty? Heaven help us if your desired form of conservatism gets anywhere near implementation

 

[Grendel]

So in your eyes reversing some of a decade's worth of cuts makes Johnson a lefty? Heaven help us if your desired form of conservatism gets anywhere near implementation

what cuts are you for real? The welfare budget remains as bloated as ever and no government makes any attempt to make the lazy and the indolent self sufficient

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

what cuts are you for real? The welfare budget remains as bloated as ever and no government makes any attempt to make the lazy and the indolent self sufficient

Ignoring that police numbers are down by 20,000 since 2010 (seems I in fact underestimated it)...

 

[Grendel]

Does that include health and social care before I bother to pull it apart?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Another myth. The notion the Tories are somehow restrained on welfare spending is absurd but I suppose at least the “tough” image seems to work

they are appalling profligate on bunging money at the welfare state and have been for many years. The notion of true conservatism died decades ago and under Johnson - who in reality is more left leaning then Blair - heaven help us

That's because the hard reality is that the Tories core vote are the biggest recipients of welfare spending

 

[fernandopartridge]

what cuts are you for real? The welfare budget remains as bloated as ever and no government makes any attempt to make the lazy and the indolent self sufficient

Welfare has fallen as a % of the total public spending despite the triple lock for pensioners

Strip out pensions and in work benefits. £2.2bn is spent on unemployment benefits of the total of £264bn (2016 figures).

 

[skybluetony176]

Welfare has fallen as a % of the total public spending despite the triple lock for pensioners

Strip out pensions and in work benefits. £2.2bn is spent on unemployment benefits of the total of £264bn (2016 figures).

Think I remember reading that disability allowances have seen the biggest cuts. Pretty sure that the majority of social spending comes out of council budgets also so cuts to council budgets has to be considered also when talking social welfare.

 

[Grendel]

Welfare has fallen as a % of the total public spending despite the triple lock for pensioners

Strip out pensions and in work benefits. £2.2bn is spent on unemployment benefits of the total of £264bn (2016 figures).

Ok let’s start with the NHS

is it true that spend as a percentage of GDP is now the same broadly as in was in 2010?

 

[shmmeee]

If we had better politicians and less partisan political stances they'd actually be much better. Otherwise we get massive swings all the time. Labour - increase spending due to chronic underinvestment beforehand followed by huge cuts by Tories to counter overspending.

A sensible hung parliament would see less chronic underinvestment under the Tories and less Labour ones overspending. Steady increases instead of peaks and troughs. Stops big business having too much of a say under Tories and Unions under Labour.

Im not sure either big business or the unions would agree they’ve been having much of a say with “their” respective last governments.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Another myth. The notion the Tories are somehow restrained on welfare spending is absurd but I suppose at least the “tough” image seems to work

they are appalling profligate on bunging money at the welfare state and have been for many years. The notion of true conservatism died decades ago and under Johnson - who in reality is more left leaning then Blair - heaven help us

Oh dear.Sorry to break it to you but the Victorian era ended a long time ago. Those times of 'heroic' industrialists who gained immense wealth due to exploitation of those 'workshy, lazy' peasants who got paid a pittance and had zero job security or protection.

 

[Grendel]

Oh dear.Sorry to break it to you but the Victorian era ended a long time ago. Those times of 'heroic' industrialists who gained immense wealth due to exploitation of those 'workshy, lazy' peasants who got paid a pittance and had zero job security or protection.

I think you’ve confused me with the 1970’s labour administration and it’s policy of wage restraint old chap

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Does that include health and social care before I bother to pull it apart?

Actually look at it

 

[Grendel]

Actually look at it

i have and the criteria is of cause flawed. It’s a measurement statistic to create a resul

why do t you run it again against % of GDP and population and come back to me

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

i have and the criteria is of cause flawed. It’s a measurement statistic to create a resul

why do t you run it again against % of GDP and population and come back to me

If I did and it contradicted your viewpoint you'd find another way to deflect. Pointless discussion

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

i have and the criteria is of cause flawed. It’s a measurement statistic to create a resul

why do t you run it again against % of GDP and population and come back to me

OR

why don't you do it to prove him wrong. Or are you just lazy and workshy?

 

[Grendel]

If I did and it contradicted your viewpoint you'd find another way to deflect. Pointless discussion

no it’s not deflection as what you’ve done is you’ve picked a measurement criteria that suits your argument and you’ve run with it

on the NHS I could legitimately argue that the main criteria to evaluate are percentage of GDP or end users (population) - you can’t just mumble deflection at me as it ruins your story. It’s an alternative criteria of measurement

You do seem a sulky little boy I have to say

Nlw on the NHS there is no question that On your criteria or mine far more was spent when Blair was PM - it stabilised to normal levels under Brown

now Blair was so I’m told not a socialist so he doesn’t count does he?

 

[Grendel]

OR

why don't you do it to prove him wrong. Or are you just lazy and workshy?

sigh I have already posted it

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

sigh I have already posted it

Then just link that post rather than ask him to do it.....

 

[Astute]

The wreath laying thing isn’t accurate. He was at an event for the victims of Israeli bombing campaign that happened to be at a cemetery where terrorists are also buried. It’s pure spin.

The IRA thing I’ve covered, you could lay the same blame at those on the other side who didn’t commemorate victims of unionist violence. I think it’s kinda gross to take a messy and violent period that most Irish people want to move on from for political gain TBH. Same with Israel Palestine. Yes Corbyn supports Palestine and a United Ireland. Both legitimate political causes. No he isn’t worried enough about the optics of who he comes into contact with. That shows naivety and no wish to run for high office, not malice IMO. YMMV.

They want to ignore? He was invited to visit those who are victims on a recent visit. He said he couldn't as they only gave him 24 hours notice. But they had email evidence that much longer was given.

And he laid the wreath at the terrorists memorial but nothing at the victims memorial that was nearby. Same constant theme.

 

[Astute]

If we had better politicians and less partisan political stances they'd actually be much better. Otherwise we get massive swings all the time. Labour - increase spending due to chronic underinvestment beforehand followed by huge cuts by Tories to counter overspending.

A sensible hung parliament would see less chronic underinvestment under the Tories and less Labour ones overspending. Steady increases instead of peaks and troughs. Stops big business having too much of a say under Tories and Unions under Labour.

Well said.

The only problem with a hung parliament is the one with most seats buy off those with less and still push through what they want.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

no it’s not deflection as what you’ve done is you’ve picked a measurement criteria that suits your argument and you’ve run with it

on the NHS I could legitimately argue that the main criteria to evaluate are percentage of GDP or end users (population) - you can’t just mumble deflection at me as it ruins your story. It’s an alternative criteria of measurement

You do seem a sulky little boy I have to say

Nlw on the NHS there is no question that On your criteria or mine far more was spent when Blair was PM - it stabilised to normal levels under Brown

now Blair was so I’m told not a socialist so he doesn’t count does he?

You dismissed that there have been spending cuts under the Tories-of course bollocks and the evidence overwhelmingly refutes it so you shift the goalposts

Any time you get proven wrong in black and white terms you stick you adopt the same strategy. Massive decrease in police numbers-OK because it's still better than 1979. The Queen could actually have prevented the proroguing of Parliament-OK because it's just bad form for her to do so. Etc etc

It's tiresome and the sign of an obsolete old man clinging on to the good old days-never seen you admit you got anything wrong

 

[Grendel]

You dismissed that there have been spending cuts under the Tories-of course bollocks and the evidence overwhelmingly refutes it so you shift the goalposts

Any time you get proven wrong in black and white terms you stick you adopt the same strategy. Massive decrease in police numbers-OK because it's still better than 1979. The Queen could actually have prevented the proroguing of Parliament-OK because it's just bad form for her to do so. Etc etc

It's tiresome and the sign of an obsolete old man clinging on to the good old days-never seen you admit you got anything wrong

Why don’t you go on a national TV programme or Radio Station with these considered mature views?

If I did would it make you or me look the most favourable if i quoted my original view and your rational response?

I has an interview today for an £80 grand job. Don’t know if I’ll get it but let’s be honest you’d never be even in it to win it would you?

 

[Astute]

You dismissed that there have been spending cuts under the Tories-of course bollocks and the evidence overwhelmingly refutes it so you shift the goalposts

Any time you get proven wrong in black and white terms you stick you adopt the same strategy. Massive decrease in police numbers-OK because it's still better than 1979. The Queen could actually have prevented the proroguing of Parliament-OK because it's just bad form for her to do so. Etc etc

It's tiresome and the sign of an obsolete old man clinging on to the good old days-never seen you admit you got anything wrong

Every thing you list here is used by those on both sides. Yet anyone who points it out are supposed to be the biased ones

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why don’t you go on a national TV programme or Radio Station with these considered mature views?

If I did would it make you or me look the most favourable if i quoted my original view and your rational response?

I has an interview today for an £80 grand job. Don’t know if I’ll get it but let’s be honest you’d never be even in it to win it would you?

The point stands-you can't admit mistakes. You forecast the annihilation of the Labour Party in 2017 and still can't say whether or not you were right. You criticise others for snobbery but routinely boast about your earnings and mock the low salaries of others. Just above you've assumed that everyone on benefits is a lazy waste of space

You don't know my experience
You don't know my qualifications
Come to think of it you don't know me

Though it's not difficult to get applause on Question Time if yesterday's showing is anything to go by.