The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (107 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

Here we go again.

Where did I say that?

Shmmeee has a good habit and putting words into peoples mouths

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is why I say about the tax being talked about on inheritance. They sa about 40% of older people help the younger ones buy. Life isn't easy. Or should I be one of those who is doing OK so not care?

I am also doing OK, much more so than I was when I started in the profession. Doesn’t mean that I have forgotten how it was

 

[Astute]

By your own made up figures (again this isn’t actually Labour policy), each person still gets more than enough for a good deposit on a decent house. That 500k house is only paid off because they bought it for £100k then spent decades voting in politicians who implemented policies designed to raise house prices. That breaks the inter generational contract. That’s why the under 40s are pissed off. Your generation has good jobs, decent pensions, affordable houses, and free education. Then when you became the voting majority decided all that stuff is socialist nonsense and got rid of it.

So did McDonnell say he is looking at doing it?

How about keeping to the truth?

We vote in Labour. House prices go up. We vote in the Tories. House prices go up. That is inflation for you. And to burst your bubble....We were told that house prices would crash if we voted leave. We voted leave. House prices continued to go up. Yet it is still our fault.

My generation has good jobs and good pensions? Brown killed off final salary pensions pensions in 2001. I have a good pension because I don't waste my money renting a new car every 3 years. I don't have to have the latest technology every time something new comes out. I don't spend thousands on holidays each year. Instead my money goes into my pension.

Brown and Bliar shafted you. And the funny thing is I see it happening again if Labour get in. But I am whatever you call me for being worried. I fell for it last time. Not falling for it again.

 

[Astute]

I am also doing OK, much more so than I was when I started in the profession. Doesn’t mean that I have forgotten how it was

Are you saying that I have forgotten?

I had it really hard. That is why I don't waste my money now. Then we get Shhhmmee saying how easy we had it. Unbelievable. My eldest kid is 34 youngest is 9. I don't need telling anything. I have seen the changes. You would think with tour comment here that it is never who wants tax to be raised off the poorer of our population and not yourself.

 

[Astute]

I apologised the other week for confusing a comment somebody had made thinking it was you?


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That was something else :smuggrin:

 

[Grendel]

By your own made up figures (again this isn’t actually Labour policy), each person still gets more than enough for a good deposit on a decent house. That 500k house is only paid off because they bought it for £100k then spent decades voting in politicians who implemented policies designed to raise house prices. That breaks the inter generational contract. That’s why the under 40s are pissed off. Your generation has good jobs, decent pensions, affordable houses, and free education. Then when you became the voting majority decided all that stuff is socialist nonsense and got rid of it.

Oh dear it’s the politics of envy

 

[shmmeee]

Here we go again.

Where did I say that?

When you said we shouldn’t tax inheritance because people need it to buy houses. Seriously if this many people misunderstand you maybe put some effort into explaining your thoughts better.

Why do you think IHT is a bad tax?

 

[shmmeee]

Are you saying that I have forgotten?

I had it really hard. That is why I don't waste my money now. Then we get Shhhmmee saying how easy we had it. Unbelievable. My eldest kid is 34 youngest is 9. I don't need telling anything. I have seen the changes. You would think with tour comment here that it is never who wants tax to be raised off the poorer of our population and not yourself.

Stop taking everything personally. One of two things can be true here:

1) The millions of young people saying there’s an issue and supported by economic indicators are wrong and a bunch of whiny snowflakes

2) There genuinely is a problem

You seem to be on the side of 1

 

[shmmeee]

So did McDonnell say he is looking at doing it?

How about keeping to the truth?

We vote in Labour. House prices go up. We vote in the Tories. House prices go up. That is inflation for you. And to burst your bubble....We were told that house prices would crash if we voted leave. We voted leave. House prices continued to go up. Yet it is still our fault.

My generation has good jobs and good pensions? Brown killed off final salary pensions pensions in 2001. I have a good pension because I don't waste my money renting a new car every 3 years. I don't have to have the latest technology every time something new comes out. I don't spend thousands on holidays each year. Instead my money goes into my pension.

Brown and Bliar shafted you. And the funny thing is I see it happening again if Labour get in. But I am whatever you call me for being worried. I fell for it last time. Not falling for it again.

Fucking hell. We are talking about breaking from the neoliberal policies that all parties have had since the 70s. This isn’t about personalities.

Are you seriously telling me education wasn’t free in your generation? Or that the house price to income ratio wasn’t far lower? Or that on average pensions were better?

Because you’d be wrong on all three cases. This isn’t even up for dispute.

Stop waffling about Blair and Brown when you are arguing against Corbyn, who the entire point of is a complete break from those two. Labour members agree with you, they didn’t fix what was wrong. That’s why they voted Corbyn in and now all you can say is “what about Blair and Brown”.

Blair and Brown did a lot of good. Their brand of neoliberal economics is better than the Tories version, but both fail to solve underlying issues with the economy.

 

[Grendel]

Fucking hell. We are talking about breaking from the neoliberal policies that all parties have had since the 70s. This isn’t about personalities.

Are you seriously telling me education wasn’t free in your generation? Or that the house price to income ratio wasn’t far lower? Or that on average pensions were better?

Because you’d be wrong on all three cases. This isn’t even up for dispute.

what about interest rates and actual mortgage payments as a percentage of earnings?

 

[Astute]

When you said we shouldn’t tax inheritance because people need it to buy houses. Seriously if this many people misunderstand you maybe put some effort into explaining your thoughts better.

Why do you think IHT is a bad tax?

I said help to buy a house and also to secure futures. I also said this would help to keep many off relying on the state in older life and not be a burden.

Where as with you..... hard to buy a house these days without a deposit. But why should they get a deposit.....And ignore the rest. And it is me that supposedly doesn't listen.

 

[clint van damme]

Well do you think such a person should be a potential cabinet member or even an MP?

I mean people think Johnson is unfit for office for a couple of unfortunate phrases

People think Johnson is unfit for office for a well raft of reasons as you well know. His off the scale dishonesty, his disastrous tenure at the foreign office, his naked ambition over what is right for the country, numerous scandals, wasting public money on projects that never get off the ground, that's just off the top of my head.

As for is Abbott fit as a cabinet member, I don't think she is personally, but I'd say the same about the vast majority of the current cabinet.

 

[skybluetony176]

what about interest rates and actual mortgage payments as a percentage of earnings?

What about wages as a percentage of house values? What about deposits as a percentage of earnings? You had it a lot better than current first time buyers.

 

[Astute]

Stop taking everything personally. One of two things can be true here:

1) The millions of young people saying there’s an issue and supported by economic indicators are wrong and a bunch of whiny snowflakes

2) There genuinely is a problem

You seem to be on the side of 1

That is your take on things.

I don't want another long lasting tax burden put onto the working class. As I keep saying it won't affect the rich. It is a Labour idea so it seems OK with you. But that isn't what the Labour party is supposed to be about. That is why I make comparisons to the last Labour government. But it doesn't matter. You know your pension got shafted by them but but but.

 

[Grendel]

That is your take on things.

I don't want another long lasting tax burden put onto the working class. As I keep saying it won't affect the rich. It is a Labour idea so it seems OK with you. But that isn't what the Labour party is supposed to be about. That is why I make comparisons to the last Labour government. But it doesn't matter. You know your pension got shafted by them but but but.

It’s a classic vote loser for any party. It’s a hated tax and any party reducing the ceiling would be trounced

it’s a lazy spiteful measure which would add peanuts to the treasury anyway

 

[Astute]

Fucking hell. We are talking about breaking from the neoliberal policies that all parties have had since the 70s. This isn’t about personalities.

Are you seriously telling me education wasn’t free in your generation? Or that the house price to income ratio wasn’t far lower? Or that on average pensions were better?

Because you’d be wrong on all three cases. This isn’t even up for dispute.

Stop waffling about Blair and Brown when you are arguing against Corbyn, who the entire point of is a complete break from those two. Labour members agree with you, they didn’t fix what was wrong. That’s why they voted Corbyn in and now all you can say is “what about Blair and Brown”.

Blair and Brown did a lot of good. Their brand of neoliberal economics is better than the Tories version, but both fail to solve underlying issues with the economy.

Where do I start here? Full of information you know is twisted.

House prices? Just as affordable as now. Have shown you the evidence enough times. We had high interest rates. You have record low interest rates.

Brown and Bliar did a lot of good? Let's forget about the bad eh? Taken to war on a lie. Still feeling the after effects and will do for many years. Pensions decimated. Yet you try to ignore how they were decimated and just state that my generation had it better. This is also false. That happened nearly 20 years ago. So in other words most of my working life. They were Tories n disguise. That has also been provenon here. Bliar speeded up privatisation of the NHS. Yet you choose to also ignore this.

I could go on. But to you they did a good job. They are Labour.

 

[Astute]

People think Johnson is unfit for office for a well raft of reasons as you well know. His off the scale dishonesty, his disastrous tenure at the foreign office, his naked ambition over what is right for the country, numerous scandals, wasting public money on projects that never get off the ground, that's just off the top of my head.

As for is Abbott fit as a cabinet member, I don't think she is personally, but I'd say the same about the vast majority of the current cabinet.

Anyone who disagrees with this is as blind to the Tories as Shmmeee is to Labour.

 

[Astute]

It’s a classic vote loser for any party. It’s a hated tax and any party reducing the ceiling would be trounced

it’s a lazy spiteful measure which would add peanuts to the treasury anyway

It would raise a lot of money off the poorer of our population. But it would do long term damage to Labour like Bliar and Brown did last time. It is a tax grab that the Tories wouldn't dare do. But once done they wouldn't reverse it. Why would they? It wouldn't be their fault.

 

[Grendel]

It would raise a lot of money off the poorer of our population. But it would do long term damage to Labour like Bliar and Brown did last time. It is a tax grab that the Tories wouldn't dare do. But once done they wouldn't reverse it. Why would they? It wouldn't be their fault.

It would raise very little - currently it raises about £5 billion and that’s of top end earners - it wouldn’t even double the current intake

 

[djr8369]

A lot of truth in this

Yeah. Tbf there’s been a lot of people saying any kind of remain lacy isn’t going to work without labour involved.


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[Astute]

It would raise very little - currently it raises about £5 billion and that’s of top end earners - it wouldn’t even double the current intake

95% of the population have less than the present £475,000. But nearly everyone who owns their own home will be over the £125,000 proposed. And that is without savings and the rest. Home ownership is at about 65% presently. But the older you get the more own their own home. So the tax would change from just 5% which is the richest to the majority.

 

[Grendel]

95% of the population have less than the present £475,000. But nearly everyone who owns their own home will be over the £125,000 proposed. And that is without savings and the rest. Home ownership is at about 65% presently. But the older you get the more own their own home. So the tax would change from just 5% which is the richest to the majority.

it’s £325,000 isn’t it?

 

[Grendel]

Excluding the residence band

 

[Astute]

it’s £325,000 isn’t it?

No £475,000.

 

[djr8369]

95% of the population have less than the present £475,000. But nearly everyone who owns their own home will be over the £125,000 proposed. And that is without savings and the rest. Home ownership is at about 65% presently. But the older you get the more own their own home. So the tax would change from just 5% which is the richest to the majority.

What if it was lowered to a value somewhere in the middle of the two?


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[Grendel]

No £475,000.

That’s including the property allowance - I’ve just looked at the Labour Party proposal - or the report it’s based on and it is projected to raise a grand total of £6 billion extra revenue so it is just double what is currently earned and based off a projected rise of the base

The proposal also isn’t lowering the threshold but actually having a lifetime gift allowance and applying an income tax on any element above that - so it then depends on your beneficiaries tax band

It’s the most stupid idea I have ever seen

 

[Grendel]

What if it was lowered to a value somewhere in the middle of the two?


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labour are proposing a lifetime gift tax and scrapping IHT altogether - it’s hilarious

 

[shmmeee]

I said help to buy a house and also to secure futures. I also said this would help to keep many off relying on the state in older life and not be a burden.

Where as with you..... hard to buy a house these days without a deposit. But why should they get a deposit.....And ignore the rest. And it is me that supposedly doesn't listen.

What? You’re the one saying the deposit should come from having parents rich enough to have built up capital. I want it to be down to hard work and ability to earn a decent wage.

 

[Grendel]

What? You’re the one saying the deposit should come from having parents rich enough to have built up capital. I want it to be down to hard work and ability to earn a decent wage.

40% of 25 to 34 year olds own their own house now and outside London the figure is higher

 

[shmmeee]

Where do I start here? Full of information you know is twisted.

House prices? Just as affordable as now. Have shown you the evidence enough times. We had high interest rates. You have record low interest rates.

Brown and Bliar did a lot of good? Let's forget about the bad eh? Taken to war on a lie. Still feeling the after effects and will do for many years. Pensions decimated. Yet you try to ignore how they were decimated and just state that my generation had it better. This is also false. That happened nearly 20 years ago. So in other words most of my working life. They were Tories n disguise. That has also been provenon here. Bliar speeded up privatisation of the NHS. Yet you choose to also ignore this.

I could go on. But to you they did a good job. They are Labour.

Interest rates were high for a short period. Wages to price ratio was low for far far longer. As people keep telling you, the issue is the deposit required to buy a house with prices as they are. Combined with low wages it means people can’t get on the ladder.

You keep stating blatant falsehoods despite being pulled up on it. I’ve repeatedly said I didn’t like Blair’s privatisation agenda, you liked the fricken post so you clearly read it!

 

[Grendel]

Interest rates were high for a short period. Wages to price ratio was low for far far longer.

You keep stating blatant falsehoods despite being pulled up on it. I’ve repeatedly said I didn’t like Blair’s privatisation agenda, you liked the fricken post so you clearly read it!

An article in the guardian shows statistics that say average income to mortgage rates have hardly altered for 25 years - keep digging

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well do you think such a person should be a potential cabinet member or even an MP?

I mean people think Johnson is unfit for office for a couple of unfortunate phrases

By a few 'unfortunate' phrases I assume you meant a few 'racist' phrases.

Plus he's unfit for office because:
-he's a liar and as a journalist made stories up.
-he was quite happy to give details of a reporter to his fraudster friend so he could beat him up.
-he has got a British woman locked up abroad for a longer term as Foreign Secretary.
-he wasted huge amounts of money on two water cannons he knew couldn't be used and millions on a garden bridge that wasn't needed and never happened.
- he has torpedoed his own government and party numerous times, esp during Brexit, for his own ambition. So like he cares about the average person on the street. His only desires are his own ambitions.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there's plenty more that I've forgotten.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

An article in the guardian shows statistics that say average income to mortgage rates have hardly altered for 25 years - keep digging

But the amount of people needing a deposit and the amount of that deposit have gone up. So you need the capital there to begin with to even get the mortgage and be part of the stats. Hence why far fewer people in their 20's and 30's own their own homes nowadays and the people mainly benefiting from the low mortgage interest rates are those that already have some capital available.

Btw I'm not saying it was easy in the past getting a house and paying off a mortgage - I know a lot of people in my parents generation who had help off their parents to buy their first home - but it was easier. Highly unlikely my parents could have afforded a house nowadays with their combined income after they got married, and certainly not the one they bought.

 

[Grendel]

But the amount of people needing a deposit and the amount of that deposit have gone up. So you need the capital there to begin with to even get the mortgage and be part of the stats. Hence why far fewer people in their 20's and 30's own their own homes nowadays and the people mainly benefiting from the low mortgage interest rates are those that already have some capital available.

Btw I'm not saying it was easy in the past getting a house and paying off a mortgage - I know a lot of people in my parents generation who had help off their parents to buy their first home - but it was easier. Highly unlikely my parents could have afforded a house nowadays with their combined income after they got married, and certainly not the one they bought.

I know a 25 year old and a 29 year old at Jlr who both worked for me who are home owners - oddly they understand the word sacrifice - my daughter now has enough to get a deposit and will buy next year

 

[djr8369]

An article in the guardian shows statistics that say average income to mortgage rates have hardly altered for 25 years - keep digging

When you say mortgage rates do you mean interest rates?


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