General Election 2019 thread (12 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Utter shite

Corbyn a man of principle? He’s a dinosaur rabble rouser out of his depth. Even people with talent in his own party viewed him with contempt

He is like a bloke who sells computer games for a living and says he’s got the latest think gets everyone excited and pulls out his Atari. His brand of socialism was condemned to the rubbish bin decades ago

Unlike Jeremy Corbyn Alan Johnson is a comprehensive educated man with a working class background. Read his comments on Corbyn

This man of principle can’t even bring himself to apologise or resign. He’s clinging on to his salary for as long as he can - any other leader whose led a car crash would have gone

Stoo blaming these press and oh so thick Sun readers - you sound like that whining bitch Owen Jones

The points you make may be true and it may also be true that some voters are thick

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Typical lazy left winger attitude .We want our arses wiping all our life.
Everyone should pay their way. What's wrong with a couple of quid a week? Theyd have to cut down on the lambert and butler intake.

Typical right winger attitude.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Starmer is a self indulgent oaf

Johnson isn't?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The media may have given him a rough ride but a fair bit was fed from inside the Labour Party. Nobody from the Tory side was leaking Andrew Fisher's email for example.

There was certainly a fair proportion of Labour who' desire to get rid of Corbyn and Momentum almost made them want to lose to do so. Just don't think they ever envisaged it being so bad leaving them with a very hard road back.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You make it sound like there's only one newspaper. Mirror, Guardian and Independent have all given Corbyn support.
All these papers have carried columnists and stories that have attacked Johnson's character - whether it be on his changeable support for Brexit, his personal life or other issues. All have made hay with relationship with his brother and tried to flame the story about that American girlfriend for example.
I fail to see how Corbyn and the people around him are so naive about how modern vote-gathering works (rightly or wrongly that's the "game"). It is about sound bytes etc.
People aren't going to sit there trying to figure out nuances.

I think the point was why does this shit not stick to Johnson but it does to Corbyn?

With Corbyn it's "that's terrible!". With Johnson it's "well, that's Boris isn't it".

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

All those sons and daughters of miners with a bloody good reason to hold grudges, decided to vote Tory... it’s a sign of the times that people are prepared to vote with their heads rather than hearts.

Then their heads are empty

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think the point was why does this shit not stick to Johnson but it does to Corbyn?

With Corbyn it's "that's terrible!". With Johnson it's "well, that's Boris isn't it".

Prince Philip gets it even easier

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So people should fund children so that parents can enjoy a cosy lifestyle? Why?

What are you talking about?

There are people saying they work in nursery care. They have kids of their own and you're telling them to get back to work. In order to do so they have to take those kids and put them in the childcare that they work for. End of the week they get paid £x as the employee. Then they have to be the client and pay the bill. That's £x + £y.

How is this 'funding a cosy lifestyle'? It'd be like you having to pay £4k pm in travel per month to get to a job you get paid £3k pm to do.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes I am aware it’s socialism but the UK doesn’t look like it’s going to go for it any time soon, all it does is lead to decades or Tory rule.

We're way to entrenched in far-right economics to see the benefits that other countries like in Scandinavia take for granted.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The river has dried up.

Cutbacks.

And been diverted to fill up the ornamental lake of the posh estate downstream

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Thatcher created a society where if you actually worked hard you made something of your life and not a woe is me my daughter can’t see a tree bleating shite

What about those that worked hard in the pits she closed? Bet most of those were much harder working than the yuppies that made a mint. Most of those wouldn't have lasted a week down a pit. I know I wouldn't.

In some alternate universe you get the anti-Thatcher closing all the financial services and telling them "move up North, grab a pick-axe and get down that mineshaft. If you work hard you get rewarded"

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No it really didn’t

Corbyns strategy was based off a computer game salesman selling an Atari as new technology and believing the working class was dumb enough to follow him

Whereas Johnson is selling Spinning Jenny's and Steam Engines. People latched onto Brexit, simple as that.

 

[tisza]

I think the point was why does this shit not stick to Johnson but it does to Corbyn?

With Corbyn it's "that's terrible!". With Johnson it's "well, that's Boris isn't it".

think it's more to do with Johnson just shrugs it off but Corbyn gives the appearance that it gets to him.
It all has the feeling of bullying. Bullies are encouraged if they think they are getting to you but move onto a new target if they think they aren't getting to you

 

[Grendel]

What about those that worked hard in the pits she closed? Bet most of those were much harder working than the yuppies that made a mint. Most of those wouldn't have lasted a week down a pit. I know I wouldn't.

In some alternate universe you get the anti-Thatcher closing all the financial services and telling them "move up North, grab a pick-axe and get down that mineshaft. If you work hard you get rewarded"

Many voted for Johnson now you clueless twat

What would you do re-open the mines? The war was between an elected government and a Marxist movement led by KGB employed Marxists like Scargill who oddly retained a very affluent lifestyle

There are disturbing similarities to Corbyn and his abuse of Jewish protesters

 

[chiefdave]

And they keep going on about no money being spent on the area and then actually go and vote for the Tories.

That beggars belief. They don’t invest in here so I voted for them

Some of the vox pops that have been on since the election have been eye opening. Seen people saying they switched from Labour to Conservative due to lack of funding for the NHS, the bedroom tax, too many homeless, number of food banks even a vague things have gone downhill the last few years.

Certainly don't want to go down the road of saying anyone who doesn't vote a certain way is stupid but how do you counter that? That's not people saying they won't vote Labour because of Corbyn or because of policy, sure there's a lot of people for whom that was the case but this is something different.

How do you counter it?

 

[tisza]

Until the country stops being Londoncentric the country is going to have problems, nothing about the Tories or Brexit is going to change that though.

It was an interesting viewpoint from Kate hoey and one of the campaign organisers (can't remember his name) that Labour had become far too focused on larger metropolitan constituencies at the expense of other smaller constituencies.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Many voted for Johnson now you clueless twat

What would you do re-open the mines? The war was between an elected government and a Marxist movement led by KGB employed Marxists like Scargill who oddly retained a very affluent lifestyle

There are disturbing similarities to Corbyn and his abuse of Jewish protesters

Of course I wouldn't re-open the mines. She took the livelihood of a load of hard-working people away and left them with nothing to rebuild with. It was basically 'move to the the most expensive part of Britain to work in industries you have no transferable skills in so will have to completely retrain before you can get those jobs', when not everyone can even move in the first place.

The point I was making was it isn't necessarily true that if you work hard you get rewarded. They worked hard and got completely shafted because she was in an ideological war. Of course Scargill et al have to take a decent chunk of the blame, but those that came out of it worst (as you pointed out with Scargill getting pretty wealthy) were the actual hard workers.

 

[skybluetony176]

The party of the people profiteering on misery Foodbank app run by newly elected Tory MP charges charities to use it
#plebs

 

[mark82]

Your comment here is equally as bad as the one referring to protesters in London as sad wankers.

Honestly, when did it become so nasty and devisive to have differing opinions.

As for the lies, All politicians lie, be cause the public cant handle the truth. As a nation we are 1.8 trillion pounds in debt, servicing that debt, let alone reducing it, is never going to be possible while delivering what their manifestos promise.
But they have to keep up the rediculous pretence to "buy" votes. So in short, it's not the lies that's the problem, but the total lack of political awareness of so many of the public.

You're right, I shouldn't have lowered myself to that level. Put it down to frustration. You're 100% right, there is no political debate now, it all gets so nasty (particularly online). I'm not sure what it is, I'd have said it was around the time of Brexit but think that's just coincidence as it's seems to be the same in other countries. One of the reasons I've stopped going on Twitter and Facebook so much - this place can be as bad at times too.

I completely agree with what you say about lack of political awareness. I think most that have contributed to this thread are politically aware. It those that just essentially vote on what the headlines say that can be swayed one way or another.

 

[LastGarrison]

Do you know what I’ve got from reading through this thread? How divisive politics has become in this country and how supporters from both sides have become so extreme.

Tory voters have gone from rich, silver spoon fed selfish oafs to thick, stupid, Brexit voting northerners!

And if you dare to support Labour you are a snowflake leftie who hates their country.

It’s wrong on so many levels and there seems to be no middle ground. I literally didn’t know where my vote was going until about 30 seconds before I put my cross in the box due to agreeing with policies from both sides (and yes it was either Labour or Tory for me) yet that vote seems to pigeon hole me in one extreme or the other.

It really is a toxic environment we live in, in the moment.

 

[mark82]

What are you talking about?

There are people saying they work in nursery care. They have kids of their own and you're telling them to get back to work. In order to do so they have to take those kids and put them in the childcare that they work for. End of the week they get paid £x as the employee. Then they have to be the client and pay the bill. That's £x + £y.

How is this 'funding a cosy lifestyle'? It'd be like you having to pay £4k pm in travel per month to get to a job you get paid £3k pm to do.

He lives in a bubble, no point trying to explain to him.

 

[Walsgrave]

The party of the people profiteering on misery Foodbank app run by newly elected Tory MP charges charities to use it
#plebs

These 'people' make me feel sick. It's a true say that many people get involves in charity to enhance their image. I have no problem with the latter but it definitely has no place in the charity sector - to me, true charity is about not about harping on about how great one's initiative is - rather, about helping those who are subject to it. The fact that she has lowered the charges in the past few hours just shows that she was (and possibly still is) profiting from it. Such people are bottom tier.

 

[dancers lance]

It's quite evident that certain people are going to take a long time to get over this, that certain people will use anything to avoid the truth, but we new that already didn't we.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you know what I’ve got from reading through this thread? How divisive politics has become in this country and how supporters from both sides have become so extreme.

Tory voters have gone from rich, silver spoon fed selfish oafs to thick, stupid, Brexit voting northerners!

And if you dare to support Labour you are a snowflake leftie who hates their country.

It’s wrong on so many levels and there seems to be no middle ground. I literally didn’t know where my vote was going until about 30 seconds before I put my cross in the box due to agreeing with policies from both sides (and yes it was either Labour or Tory for me) yet that vote seems to pigeon hole me in one extreme or the other.

It really is a toxic environment we live in, in the moment.

Brexit split the country in two and has highlighted that the left/right descriptors of old are busted, Scotland and Northern Ireland are treated as inconveniences and the 3 year stagnation over it has left these attitudes festering for too long. The political realignment probably isn't finished

 

[SBAndy]

All those sons and daughters of miners with a bloody good reason to hold grudges, decided to vote Tory... it’s a sign of the times that people are prepared to vote with their heads rather than hearts.

I wonder how much timing plays with this. The mining crises are about 35 years ago now, therefore you’ve got an entire generation that may feel fairly unopinionated on the matter.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I assume these projects will involve bridges between Yorkshire and Lancashire & Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Who knows what he may dream up?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[fatso]

There was certainly a fair proportion of Labour who' desire to get rid of Corbyn and Momentum almost made them want to lose to do so. Just don't think they ever envisaged it being so bad leaving them with a very hard road back.

This result is the best thing that could happen to labour.
A chance to purge themselves of the loony left extremists and re brand as the real labour party.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This result is the best thing that could happen to labour.
A chance to purge themselves of the loony left extremists and re brand as the real labour party.

What is the real Labour?

 

[dancers lance]

What is the real Labour?

The party founded to represent the interests and needs of the working class, I genuine honest party, one that didn't bullshit It's voting base, a party founded on liberal socialism, not angry, middle class, university educated, faux Marxists.

 

[tisza]

I wonder how much timing plays with this. The mining crises are about 35 years ago now, therefore you’ve got an entire generation that may feel fairly unopinionated on the matter.

Or possibly some of these communities were mining areas where Wilson had closed the pits or maybe Corbyn & momentum reminded them of scargill and his NUM. Will Remain areas ever forgive the Tories?
I think you're right that the scars for many eventually heal and people focus on what they believe to be current issues - not historical ones.

 

[chiefdave]

The party founded to represent the interests and needs of the working class, I genuine honest party, one that didn't bullshit It's voting base, a party founded on liberal socialism, not angry, middle class, university educated, faux Marxists.

So in practical terms what would you bin from the manifesto and what would you replace it with?

 

[SBAndy]

Or possibly some of these communities were mining areas where Wilson had closed the pits or maybe Corbyn & momentum reminded them of scargill and his NUM. Will Remain areas ever forgive the Tories?
I think you're right that the scars for many eventually heal and people focus on what they believe to be current issues - not historical ones.

Glad you semi-agree. To be honest I know little of Scargill and the battles so you may be right there. People my age know it anecdotally rather than directly. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are plenty that side with their parents/grandparents(?) and feel the injustice, but there will be a decent sized 20-something audience who’s lives have not been affected and they don’t know of the struggle.

 

[SBAndy]

So in practical terms what would you bin from the manifesto and what would you replace it with?

Not directed at me - appreciated - but free broadband is a 2nd term policy, nationalisation of industry needs to be phased, 20 trees planted per minute 24/7 for the next 10 years or whatever policy was needs to be better thought through. Three headline policies that were quite evidently beyond reach. Don’t get me wrong, absolutely agree with the end goal, but these statements contributed to the overall lack of credibility.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Glad you semi-agree. To be honest I know little of Scargill and the battles so you may be right there. People my age know it anecdotally rather than directly. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there are plenty that side with their parents/grandparents(?) and feel the injustice, but there will be a decent sized 20-something audience who’s lives have not been affected and they don’t know of the struggle.

I think a lot of people were tired of unions. Particularly car manufacturing. I read a stat that Red Robbo was involved in 530 strikes in the late 60s / seventies. The members turned and eventually went back to work.
Thatcher came at the time when people needed change and she had the perfect formula at the time. A lot of young people embraced it. Then the stockpiling of coal to break the miners...
Many people saw the injustice and brutality of the closure of pits. It devastated communities. But others were under the spell of Thatcher et al. And had Michael Foot and Kinnock as the other choices.

in my view the silent majority chose the lesser of the two evils. And hopefully killed the Corbyn plan (I never really heard what Labour were going to do because they were too busy shouting and always seemed to be bitter,nasty and the vocal ones just ranted. Scary for the silent majority of voters.
What changed for the young voters. Some clearly like Corbyn but I didn’t see droves at polling stations. Maybe they saw through the dreamland Corbyn was creating for them?
As for sanctity of the vote...I think it is saved for a while now. We didn’t buy Corbyn. Many needed Brexit to be done..scary as that may seem to Remainers and leavers alike.

 

[olderskyblue]

I think a lot of people were tired of unions. Particularly car manufacturing. I read a stat that Red Robbo was involved in 530 strikes in the late 60s / seventies. The members turned and eventually went back to work.
Thatcher came at the time when people needed change and she had the perfect formula at the time. A lot of young people embraced it. Then the stockpiling of coal to break the miners...
Many people saw the injustice and brutality of the closure of pits. It devastated communities. But others were under the spell of Thatcher et al. And had Michael Foot and Kinnock as the other choices.

in my view the silent majority chose the lesser of the two evils. And hopefully killed the Corbyn plan (I never really heard what Labour were going to do because they were too busy shouting and always seemed to be bitter,nasty and the vocal ones just ranted. Scary for the silent majority of voters.
What changed for the young voters. Some clearly like Corbyn but I didn’t see droves at polling stations. Maybe they saw through the dreamland Corbyn was creating for them?
As for sanctity of the vote...I think it is saved for a while now. We didn’t buy Corbyn. Many needed Brexit to be done..scary as that may seem to Remainers and leavers alike.

Might be worth doing a bit of research on Scargill, and then decide who was most instrumental in the collapse of the mining industry.

was he there to save an ailing industry and thousands of jobs, or to try to bring a government down? Whichever way you see it, it will be an interesting exercise.