General Election 2019 thread (26 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Bury your head in the sand you clown.

I'm not burying my head in anything. But I'm not getting my world view from can't pay we'll take it away either!!

 

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[clint van damme]

Of course it does you fool.

no it doesn't when London has the biggest immigration population in the country you fool. Fucking hell, how fucking stupid can you get?!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Says the plastic paddy/Italian who hates the English? Yes I do have a problem with foreigners. The foreigners who come over here to scrounge/beg. Are you that thick that you cant grasp that?

Do you want our own scroungers and beggars kicked out of the country as well? Genuine question

 

[SkyblueBazza]

As Grendel mentioned the 130,000 figure comes from a flawed report so it isn't possible to say for sure that those deaths are caused by austerity or even if there were 130,000 deaths.

However, there is plenty of evidence, including anecdotal evidence of individual cases which we've all seen that austerity is linked to.
Tony has pointed out the links between austerity, homelessness and increased deaths above.
And even if only a fraction of those deaths are due to austerity, in a large western economy, which despite the narrative driven by the right wing press actually spends less of it's GDP on welfare than it's peer countries that's shameful and itscallous to suggest otherwise (Though no doubt you will).

So using your anecdotal type argument, austerity has actually had quite a positive impact upon the non-homeless population's death rate.

There are also anecdotal reports that homeless centres are unpleasant with drug & alcohol-fuelled crime. And that many involve spending the night with around 20 other homeless people, so homeless people choose not to use them (some might say anecdotally that they choose to huddle together in shop doorways instead where the threat of having their wine or drugs stolen from them is lower?)

What solution works? Who knows unless it is tried?

Maybe you & fellow whino's (see what I did there? ;-) ) ought to pop into town tonight & rescue a couple of them & give them food, shower & bed for a few days?

Maybe all those with more than assets above £1m should have 5% taken away to conduct a proper investigation as to who is homeless & why, & what their idea of a solution would look like?

Maybe 2nd homes should be bought up by the state? Maybe we should shrug our shoulders & say 'you got yourself into this mess - you get yourself out of it'?

I really have no idea of a palatable solution, but to simply point the finger (like on crime, education & NHS) at the current Tory government is plainly unfair. Had proper decisive possibly even draconian punishment been introduced 50yrs ago, we wouldn't have a drug problem in the country...easy to say isn't it?

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[Sick Boy]

I'm the child of an Irish migrant. So what? I don't brush of that I'm english like you and brag about an Irish passport.
You don't like the English just admit it.

I do like the English actually and I don’t think I’ve ever ‘brushed anything off’, nor boasted about having a certain passport. I didn’t actually get a British one until I was a teenager, which was my choice.

A child of an Irish migrant? I’d have thought you could trace your ancestry back to Cov since the Magna Carta, you plastic coventrian

 

[Ian1779]

No I'm not but don't tell me the influx of foreigners isnt helping. Theres plenty of unskilled workers in this country that cant get into work because of this. Every fucking parcel that gets to delivered to my house is by a foreigner. Why cant our unemployed do these jobs?

Can’t or won’t?

Also perhaps worth looking at the businesses that deem it more ‘profitable’ to employ an unskilled worker from outside of the UK.

If you think that unskilled migration will stop after Brexit then you’ve been taken for a fool. It just will just come from somewhere that isn’t in the EU.

 

[Grendel]

Can’t or won’t?

Also perhaps worth looking at the businesses that deem it more ‘profitable’ to employ an unskilled worker from outside of the UK.

If you think that unskilled migration will stop after Brexit then you’ve been taken for a fool. It just will just come from somewhere that isn’t in the EU.

I thought you favoured a minimum living wage anyway and all these businesses are just ripping people off and making large profits?

 

[clint van damme]

So using your anecdotal type argument, austerity has actually had quite a positive impact upon the non-homeless population's death rate.

There are also anecdotal reports that homeless centres are unpleasant with drug & alcohol-fuelled crime. And that many involve spending the night with around 20 other homeless people, so homeless people choose not to use them (some might say anecdotally that they choose to huddle together in shop doorways instead where the threat of having their wine or drugs stolen from them is lower?)

What solution works? Who knows unless it is tried?

Maybe you & fellow whino's (see what I did there? ;-) ) ought to pop into town tonight & rescue a couple of them & give them food, shower & bed for a few days?

Maybe all those with more than assets above £1m should have 5% taken away to conduct a proper investigation as to who is homeless & why, & what their idea of a solution would look like?

Maybe 2nd homes should be bought up by the state? Maybe we should shrug our shoulders & say 'you got yourself into this mess - you get yourself out of it'?

I really have no idea of a palatable solution, but to simply point the finger (like on crime, education & NHS) at the current Tory government is plainly unfair. Had proper decisive possibly even draconian punishment been introduced 50yrs ago, we wouldn't have a drug problem in the country...easy to say isn't it?

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the current Tory government implemented austerity on their watch so it's not unfair to point the finger at them.
It became a political ideology rather than an economic policy as admitted by Philip Hammond the Chancellor at the heart of it and even Boris Johnson recently spoke against it in an interview.

As for anecdotal arguments, do you think austerity didn't play a part in any of these cases:

Vulnerable man starved to death after benefits were cut
Disabled man killed himself over benefit cut, coroner rules
‘Chaotic’ universal credit led to disabled man’s death, sister tells UN poverty expert
there are literally thousands of these stories some of them cited in the damning UN report on UK poverty.

As for your flippant remark about popping into town and taking people in it's the sort of flippant nonsense I'd expect from you to be honest though you'll claim you were trying to make a point.

 

[Sick Boy]

It’s good to see that after spending months raging against the elite and banning ministers from going to Davos, the people’s PM has gone off to the private island of Mustique.

 

[Grendel]

Do you want our own scroungers and beggars kicked out of the country as well? Genuine question

Clearly they can’t be

If a person from overseas has no permanent resident status here I see no benefit of them remaining here

 

[Sick Boy]

Clearly they can’t be

If a person from overseas has no permanent resident status here I see no benefit of them remaining here

In reality is that most migrants are working, despite what Channel 5 tells us.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Clearly they can’t be

If a person from overseas has no permanent resident status here I see no benefit of them remaining here

It’s not like people being citizens already has prevented us from deporting them in the past...might be a quick way to trim that welfare bill G

 

[Grendel]

It’s not like people being citizens already has prevented us from deporting them in the past...might be a quick way to trim that welfare bill G

Well it would halve the numbers on the streets which is a good thing surely

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was born in England so don’t hate the country, just because someone doesn’t agree with your bigoted opinions doesn’t mean they hate the country.

I also spent quite a lot of my childhood growing up in Ireland and come from and Irish family, so it’s not surprising I have an Irish identity too.

As for plastic Italian - how does moving to a different country turn that person into a plastic?

Mario or Luigi?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well it would halve the numbers on the streets which is a good thing surely

What if I showed you American studies suggesting it would be more cost effective to house all homeless people than to pay for its secondary effects?

 

[Grendel]

What if I showed you American studies suggesting it would be more cost effective to house all homeless people than to pay for its secondary effects?

I would find it hard to believe and also there would be no cost if homeless people are from overseas as the only cost is a plane ticket back home

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I would find it hard to believe and also there would be no cost if homeless people are from overseas as the only cost is a plane ticket back home

OK let me know what you think buddy
https://thinkprogress.org/leaving-homeless-person-on-the-streets-31-065-giving-them-housing-10-051-3107834a8632
What about our domestic homeless? Deport them too?

 

[Grendel]

OK let me know what you think buddy
https://thinkprogress.org/leaving-homeless-person-on-the-streets-31-065-giving-them-housing-10-051-3107834a8632
What about our domestic homeless? Deport them too?

Well it’s a very vague set of assumptions. I have a real issue with people receiving free accommodation when they are at an age of self sufficiency and sustainability. If you provided housing when would it stop and self sufficiency begins?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well it’s a very vague set of assumptions. I have a real issue with people receiving free accommodation when they are at an age of self sufficiency and sustainability. If you provided housing when would it stop and self sufficiency begins?

Not really, it’s pretty easy to track the costs of healthcare, arrests and the like. The point is not to give people a free ride but to get them on their feet and with a realistic chance of contributing to society. Leaving people to fester on the street doesn’t work out for anybody.

Not everyone becomes homeless by being a waste of space as you seem to assume

 

[SkyblueBazza]

the current Tory government implemented austerity on their watch so it's not unfair[/QUOTE.]

So you ARE patting the Tories on the back for reducing the number of deaths amongst non-homeless thrpugh introducing austerity.

The examples you cite are all horrible. They happened during a time of austerity. That doesn't mean, nor does it prove they would still be alive were it not for austerity. Nor benefits wpuld not have been stopped or reduced were it not for austerity.

As for your flippant remark about popping into town and taking people in it's the sort of flippant nonsense I'd expect from you to be honest though you'll claim you were trying to make a point.[/QUOTE.]

That does indeed make the point - you don't like people being homeless but you want someone else to find a home for them in their back-yard - not yours!!!

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[clint van damme]

by your logic people would police the streets themselves and fix pot holes in the streets themselves when government fails, which is as you are aware a nonsensical idea.
And the withdrawal of benefits is pretty conclusive in the deaths of those examples I've given and the coroner cited the work assessment as the direct cause in the inquest of poor fella who took his own life though you'll still argue against it.
Have a good boxing day.

 

[Grendel]

Not really, it’s pretty easy to track the costs of healthcare, arrests and the like. The point is not to give people a free ride but to get them on their feet and with a realistic chance of contributing to society. Leaving people to fester on the street doesn’t work out for anybody.

Not everyone becomes homeless by being a waste of space as you seem to assume

Of course it’s a very generic set of assumptions that’s then been applied across the whole

The benefit system does offer a safety net to people. I know a couple of people in pretty dire family circumstances who have been offered housing

Statistics are impossible to really validate arguments here so a lot of experiences are based on the anecdotal

I’ve many times attempted to offer to buy food for homeless people and I’d say about 90% of the time they’ve said no they want money

One bizarre incident occurred once when I was asked by some Eastern European guy for money as he needed £20 for a hostel - I actually drove home and got a tenner and went back and gave it to him and he then called me a c**t and tried to get more money off me

I know people who have volunteered at a homeless shelter at Christmas and it’s been a case of food is shit, I want more and general abuse. Sexual abusive comments in one case.

Homeless people generally are three categories

Mentally ill
Drug alcohol dependant
Choice

Mentally ill need to be institutionalised. Addicts need some offer of treatment

What you will find is if accommodation is offered a fair proportion will turn it down as they will not want to be moved to an area they do not want to be in

I repeat I know two people through no fault of their own were forced out of their homes and the local council provided immediate support and they both have apartments now

There is help and a safety net in place. Never give a homeless person money - offer food and drink and see the response you typically get

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course it’s a very generic set of assumptions that’s then been applied across the whole

The benefit system does offer a safety net to people. I know a couple of people in pretty dire family circumstances who have been offered housing

Statistics are impossible to really validate arguments here so a lot of experiences are based on the anecdotal

I’ve many times attempted to offer to buy food for homeless people and I’d say about 90% of the time they’ve said no they want money

One bizarre incident occurred once when I was asked by some Eastern European guy for money as he needed £20 for a hostel - I actually drove home and got a tenner and went back and gave it to him and he then called me a c**t and tried to get more money off me

I know people who have volunteered at a homeless shelter at Christmas and it’s been a case of food is shit, I want more and general abuse. Sexual abusive comments in one case.

Homeless people generally are three categories

Mentally ill
Drug alcohol dependant
Choice

Mentally ill need to be institutionalised. Addicts need some offer of treatment

What you will find is if accommodation is offered a fair proportion will turn it down as they will not want to be moved to an area they do not want to be in

I repeat I know two people through no fault of their own were forced out of their homes and the local council provided immediate support and they both have apartments now

There is help and a safety net in place. Never give a homeless person money - offer food and drink and see the response you typically get

If you’re aware that a lot have drug or alcohol problems, why are you so surprised they are going to want money for alcohol or drugs? Someone with a heroin habit is going to choose money over food and is often not going to have much of an appetite.

 

[Grendel]

If you’re aware that a lot have drug or alcohol problems, why are you so surprised they are going to want money for alcohol or drugs? Someone with a heroin habit is going to choose money over food and is often not going to have much of an appetite.

So free housing reduces costs to the taxpayer how exactly

 

[Sick Boy]

So free housing reduces costs to the taxpayer how exactly

I don’t think I mentioned free housing, did I?

There does need to be much more investment in treating and preventing addiction though.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think I mentioned free housing, did I?

There does need to be much more investment in treating and preventing addiction though.

Brighton did he said it would be cheaper to provide free houses - why when they keep shooting up?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course it’s a very generic set of assumptions that’s then been applied across the whole

The benefit system does offer a safety net to people. I know a couple of people in pretty dire family circumstances who have been offered housing

Statistics are impossible to really validate arguments here so a lot of experiences are based on the anecdotal

I’ve many times attempted to offer to buy food for homeless people and I’d say about 90% of the time they’ve said no they want money

One bizarre incident occurred once when I was asked by some Eastern European guy for money as he needed £20 for a hostel - I actually drove home and got a tenner and went back and gave it to him and he then called me a c**t and tried to get more money off me

I know people who have volunteered at a homeless shelter at Christmas and it’s been a case of food is shit, I want more and general abuse. Sexual abusive comments in one case.

Homeless people generally are three categories

Mentally ill
Drug alcohol dependant
Choice

Mentally ill need to be institutionalised. Addicts need some offer of treatment

What you will find is if accommodation is offered a fair proportion will turn it down as they will not want to be moved to an area they do not want to be in

I repeat I know two people through no fault of their own were forced out of their homes and the local council provided immediate support and they both have apartments now

There is help and a safety net in place. Never give a homeless person money - offer food and drink and see the response you typically get

I always offer food instead of money. Can’t say I’ve been met with hostility for it. Particularly for the individuals say freezing outside Spar/Earl of Mercia. On other occasions when I didn’t have anything though I’ve been told I would pay for it on Judgement Day. Agreed, bizarre.

You can measure the cost of crime and medical expenses incurred by the homeless. If people reject the offer no more can be done. But I would argue that given the choice most would rather at least have a roof over their heads and the chance to do something

 

[skybluetony176]

The stats back up the comments

The majority of homeless people in London are foreign nationals

In London. So are you saying he’s not a racist so long as he stays in London?

 

[skybluetony176]

Homelessness? How many of them these days are bleeding foreign? Its bound to keep on rising with those lot coming over thinking this is the land of milk and honey. They must grossly inflate the figures. You wanna walk from euston to st pancras. Foreign beggars/homeless sitting in the pathways begging for money. Theres loads of them.
We know we homeless problem,we always have. How many of them are self inflicted cases though? I get theres genuine cases but its hard to see them through all trash from abroad. I used to give money to the homeless but not anymore because of this reason.
You wanna watch an episode of that cant pay we'll take it away programme. I'd say 9 out of 10 families in London they evict are foreign. How much housing do they take up? People are sick of it.

You need to sit down and rethink your life. Make that your new year’s resolution.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wrong.

You cannot prove that homelessness has risen BECAUSE of austerity. The figures (which you refer to but I haven't looked at) will simply show that homelessness has increased at a time of austerity. Homelessness previously has increased at times without any austerity too.

CCFC seem to play better this season, so is that because we are playing at St. Andrews? No - there are far more complex and wider issues that impact it.

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It’s the government’s statistics not mine.

 

[Walsgrave]

No I'm not but don't tell me the influx of foreigners isnt helping. Theres plenty of unskilled workers in this country that cant get into work because of this. Every fucking parcel that gets to delivered to my house is by a foreigner. Why cant our unemployed do these jobs?

Proper shameful that - English people are being beaten by foreigners in their own back yard! You hate to see it!

 

[The coventrian]

Proper shameful that - English people are being beaten by foreigners in their own back yard! You hate to see it!

Beaten? Wtf are you on about? Go and live abroad then if you love them so much.

 

[The coventrian]

You need to sit down and rethink your life. Make that your new year’s resolution.

Why do I? Theres no rule that says you have to welcome workshy beggars from abroad.
Fuck em. Send them home.

 

[The coventrian]

Can’t or won’t?

Also perhaps worth looking at the businesses that deem it more ‘profitable’ to employ an unskilled worker from outside of the UK.

If you think that unskilled migration will stop after Brexit then you’ve been taken for a fool. It just will just come from somewhere that isn’t in the EU.

The born and bred workshy over here should be forced into work if taking the piss.
You cant honestly tell me though that those coming in doing the unskilled jobs arent stopping people here getting employment?
If you think they arent then your a bigger idiot than I thought you were.

 

[The coventrian]

Seems like we've got another 49 to pay for now. Im sure the likes of sick boy,tony and ian would pay more tax to look after them?
Apparently they're from Iran,Iraq and Afghanistan. So why not stop at the first safe country? Is it because we've turned into a nation of liberal soft twats?
Should of sunk the boats.