The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (25 Viewers)

[usskyblue]

Here ...you see Hispanic immigrants working their arses off for minimum wage (and less because they’re ‘illegal’ and it’s used against them)....while white Americans are begging at traffic lights.

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

I really wouldn’t flatter yourself

Border control and immigration restrictions are not solely the bastions of the right

I suggest you look at old footage of Tony Benn debating with Roy Jenkins in I think an interview chaired by Robin Day. The debate was in the EU and Benn pretty much on immigration was saying the same as Farage. He and Foot were massively opposed to Europe as - if they really admitted it - are McDonnell and Corbyn. As an actual political belief real hard line socialists oppose the idea of a capitalist federal state oddly enough

I am well aware of Labour’s views on Brexit and you are correct on Corbyn. However none of what you have said detracts from the fact that England has a racism problem, which is worsening.

 

[Grendel]

I am well aware of Labour’s views on Brexit and you are correct on Corbyn. However none of what you have said detracts from the fact that England has a racism problem, which is worsening.

So does Europe which is far more representative in its political representation and oddly much of their argument is based on removal of identity

 

[torchomatic]

I don’t think Richard Burgon did

Richard Burgon is a poisonous racist individual.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So does Europe which is far more representative in its political representation and oddly much of their argument is based on removal of identity

So you agree. Look at Italy, now they’re through with moving England to the right they’re going through similar things. It’s not just us, but if you want to expand the argument then it’s just as I said, there is a surge in the right wing. Brexit was/is a victory for the right & racism.

 

[skybluetony176]

Personally I’m going to be celebrating NHS waiting lists going down due to all those nasty foreigners going home and the NHS’s £360M a week windfall, instant pay rise without all those nasty foreigners driving down my wages, paying duty to bring my dog back into the country, finally getting rid of Scotland and Northern Ireland, sticking it to America in trade negotiations, less cars on the road now them nasty foreigners going home, our government making all the decisions because they’re awesome at getting those right, never lie to us and always act in the best interests of the common people, loosing access to the EU’s fishing waters so scallop fishermen can take a well deserved break when the scallops migrate out of U.K. waters, an end to processing Norway’s fish for the EU so Grimsby stops smelling of fish, it’s the least the people of Grimsby deserve.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Richard Burgon is a poisonous racist individual.

Is he the guy who was caught on camera going mad about Jewish people?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Personally I’m going to be celebrating NHS waiting lists going down due to all those nasty foreigners going home and the NHS’s £360M a week windfall, instant pay rise without all those nasty foreigners driving down my wages, paying duty to bring my dog back into the country, finally getting rid of Scotland and Northern Ireland, sticking it to America in trade negotiations, less cars on the road now them nasty foreigners going home, our government making all the decisions because they’re awesome at getting those right, never lie to us and always act in the best interests of the common people, loosing access to the EU’s fishing waters so scallop fishermen can take a well deserved break when the scallops migrate out of U.K. waters, an end to processing Norway’s fish for the EU so Grimsby stops smelling of fish, it’s the least the people of Grimsby deserve.

I’d give this two likes if I could.

 

[usskyblue]

People never stop to wonder that there are very few restrictions on the movement of companies, products, commodities and money...

....yet people can’t move freely around this tiny fucking rock that’s floating around in infinite space.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

People never stop to wonder that there are very few restrictions on the movement of companies, products, commodities and money...

....yet people can’t move freely around this tiny fucking rock that’s floating around in infinite space.

Perfectly put.

 

[shmmeee]

You need to be more coherent.

England (not so much the others in the U.K.) has a significant, and worsening racism problem. To deny betrays a massive ignorance of what is going on around you.

Make your mind up. Is Britain racist because they voted for Brexit to reduce immigration or is it racist because it’s self evidently racist?

It’s not me lacking in coherence.

Historically the far right does well when the rest of the political spectrum drops the ball on the basics of the economy. See 1930s Germany.

 

[torchomatic]

Is he the guy who was caught on camera going mad about Jewish people?

Yep. It's MPs like him who encourage the anti semites within Labour.

 

[torchomatic]

Make your mind up. Is Britain racist because they voted for Brexit to reduce immigration or is it racist because it’s self evidently racist?

It’s not me lacking in coherence.

Historically the far right does well when the rest of the political spectrum drops the ball on the basics of the economy. See 1930s Germany.

There's no doubt Brexit has emboldened the racists in the UK. Racist figures like Farage give them a figurehead.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Make your mind up. Is Britain racist because they voted for Brexit to reduce immigration or is it racist because it’s self evidently racist?

It’s not me lacking in coherence.

Britain is not self evidently racist, it’s England that has the problem. Brexit was a good tool for Farage & Johnson to manipulate the racism and turn it into votes, even using Nazi propaganda posters in their campaign, since then people have felt more empowered to get very open about it, all in the name of ‘free speech’.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yep. It's MPs like him who encourage the anti semites within Labour.

I didn’t vote labour. I hasten to add I didn’t vote Tory either.

 

[shmmeee]

There's no doubt Brexit has emboldened the racists in the UK. Racist figures like Farage give them a figurehead.

Yes it has. That’s why you don’t drop the ball because the racists are always there ready to pick it up and run with it.

Simply screeching “Britain is racist” doesn’t move anything forward. Why is it racist? How can we stop it being racist?

When recession hits and moderate politics can’t make people’s lives better they start listening to radical solutions. This happens again and again and again. Without recognising that pattern you have no chance of stopping it.

Look at post war Germany and what was done to stop the rise of fascism: training, worker representation on boards, investment, etc. Not telling all the Germans what massive racists they were.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

There's no doubt Brexit has emboldened the racists in the UK. Racist figures like Farage give them a figurehead.

And don’t forget our prime minister going around calling people letterboxes, piccaninnies with watermelon smiles, saying Muslims are centuries behind the west, and that Islam a phobia is natural.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yes it has. That’s why you don’t drop the ball because the racists are always there ready to pick it up and run with it.

Simply screeching “Britain is racist” doesn’t move anything forward. Why is it racist? How can we stop it being racist?

When recession hits and moderate politics can’t make people’s lives better they start listening to radical solutions. This happens again and again and again. Without recognising that pattern you have no chance of stopping it.

Look at post war Germany and what was done to stop the rise of fascism: training, worker representation on boards, investment, etc. Not telling all the Germans what massive racists they were.

I’m not screeching Britain is racist, I’m saying very calmly- and correctly- that England has a significant racism problem, which is now rearing it’s head ‘in public’ due to the views expressed by the leaders of the country, and due to the fact that people see Brexit as an excuse for them to say what they really think.

The point about Germany is just silly so I will not bother with that.

And as to your point about how do you stop it, a good starting point would be to acknowledge what is happening. Right in front of you, every single day.

 

[torchomatic]

Yes it has. That’s why you don’t drop the ball because the racists are always there ready to pick it up and run with it.

Simply screeching “Britain is racist” doesn’t move anything forward. Why is it racist? How can we stop it being racist?

When recession hits and moderate politics can’t make people’s lives better they start listening to radical solutions. This happens again and again and again. Without recognising that pattern you have no chance of stopping it.

Look at post war Germany and what was done to stop the rise of fascism: training, worker representation on boards, investment, etc. Not telling all the Germans what massive racists they were.

The timing of the referendum couldn't have come at a worse time, that didn't help.

 

[torchomatic]

Here's the forecast for Brexit Day.

 

[Grendel]

I’m not screeching Britain is racist, I’m saying very calmly- and correctly- that England has a significant racism problem, which is now rearing it’s head ‘in public’ due to the views expressed by the leaders of the country.

The point about Germany is just silly so I will not bother with that.

And as to your point about how do you stop it, a good starting point would be to acknowledge what is happening. Right in front of you, every single day.

Are the rest of Europe acknowledging it? Wales voted to leave - are they excluded from this curious outburst?

Given parties in France, Germany, Italy and Spain as examples have far greater political representation of the far right I’m not sure why pro Eu Scotland is excluded either.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Are the rest of Europe acknowledging it? Wales voted to leave - are they excluded from this curious outburst?

Given parties in France, Germany, Italy and Spain as examples have far greater political representation of the far right I’m not sure why pro Eu Scotland is excluded either.

Wales voted leave in 2016, how did they go in the withdrawal agreement vote by the way, once all the implications & facts were better known?

That is of course another side effect of Brexit, the complete breakup of the U.K., which is no bad thing, the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish don’t deserve to be sucked into the cesspit that England is currently creating.

 

[Grendel]

Wales voted leave in 2016, how did they go in the withdrawal agreement vote by the way, once all the implications & facts were better known?

That is of course another side effect of Brexit, the complete breakup of the U.K., which is no bad thing, the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish don’t deserve to be sucked into the cesspit that England is currently creating.

Sturgeon is ironically a far greater nationalist than Johnson and will willingly bring Scotland to its knees to get her lifelong dream.

I think you need a lie down Mart

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Wales voted leave in 2016, how did they go in the withdrawal agreement vote by the way, once all the implications & facts were better known?

That is of course another side effect of Brexit, the complete breakup of the U.K., which is no bad thing, the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish don’t deserve to be sucked into the cesspit that England is currently creating.

Anyway, that’s my own view, I gave up my nationality as a result of what is happening in my country and my disgust at it. We are currently living in a world where the right wing are on the march and for them it’s a case of “fuck everyone else”, especially if you’re not white. Brexit is going to be a disaster, and there will be no U.K. soon enough- if that’s a price worth paying then fine.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Sturgeon is ironically a far greater nationalist than Johnson and will willingly bring Scotland to its knees to get her lifelong dream.

I think you need a lie down Mart

that’s what happens when you shit all over a nation and it’s people for centuries, you create nationalists. We have always been pretty good at that- wherever there is a place with violence, uprisings and that kind of thing, you can bet that we were involved somewhere down the line.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Sturgeon is ironically a far greater nationalist than Johnson and will willingly bring Scotland to its knees to get her lifelong dream.

I think you need a lie down Mart

By the way who is Mart, or is that a typo? I’d love a lie down actually, I’m knackered and all bloated due to all the ice cream.

 

[Grendel]

that’s what happens when you shit all over a nation and it’s people for centuries, you create nationalists. We have always been pretty good at that- wherever there is a place with violence, uprisings and that kind of thing, you can bet that we were involved somewhere down the line.

her and her charming mentor have always been nationalist - that’s the point. In one breath you quote tub thumping nationalism as racist and the next quote it as a sign of liberation from racist oppression

 

[ccfc92]

Wales voted leave in 2016, how did they go in the withdrawal agreement vote by the way, once all the implications & facts were better known?

That is of course another side effect of Brexit, the complete breakup of the U.K., which is no bad thing, the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish don’t deserve to be sucked into the cesspit that England is currently creating.

I hope they do all become independent countries, if they wish to be.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

her and her charming mentor have always been nationalist - that’s the point. In one breath you quote tub thumping nationalism as racist and the next quote it as a sign of liberation from racist oppression

No, I am not actually bringing anything political into it, and to try to divert onto political figures and systems when we’re talking about racism is ridiculous. Do you think your average thick as shit racist Brexit voter understands or cares about Nicola Sturgeons background or the political systems in Europe? This is a much bigger ‘thing’, the way people think & act and what they feel, it’s more than just political systems, it’s about the direction society is currently heading.

I’ll say it one more time. England has a significant and growing racism problem, and Brexit plus our ‘leaders’ attitudes to other races have emboldened that racism to the point where it’s now almost socially acceptable to be openly racist.

If you & others really refuse to acknowledge that there is a growing problem, I don’t really know what more to say apart from it’s no wonder the place is turning to shit so quickly.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I hope they do all become independent countries, if they wish to be.

I agree, and it’s bound to happen now. A United Ireland too, if it wasn’t so expensive. But it will happen.

 

[ccfc92]

I agree, and it’s bound to happen now. A United Ireland too, if it wasn’t so expensive. But it will happen.

As long as there's no violence, I've always agreed NI should be part of Ireland. We (GB) should have no say in it.

The reality may be completely different though.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

As long as there's no violence, I've always agreed NI should be part of Ireland. We (GB) should have no say in it.

The reality may be completely different though.

Oh definitely, I agree. And yes, the reality would be very different so it will take a while, but there’s no doubt it will happen at some stage.

 

[Grendel]

Oh definitely, I agree. And yes, the reality would be very different so it will take a while, but there’s no doubt it will happen at some stage.

The Belfast Treaty allows a referendum anyway

 

[usskyblue]

The world is fucked up. Governments don’t want intelligence.

It starts at school. 4 year olds holding flags talking about God and country while reciting national anthems. It’s fucking sick when you think about it.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The Belfast Treaty allows a referendum anyway

Yes you’re right, the issue there is always going to be what happens after the vote with all the sensitivities involved. I think I’m right in saying that the nationalists now control more of the country, first time it happened, and I do know for sure that NI are getting very nervous about being tied to Johnson after what he did, so maybe sooner than we think, who knows.