Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (124 Viewers)

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Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
'Economically liberal, socially conservative' with a small C is a pretty apt phrase at this time that I believe a lot of people confide in.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
Warwickhunt said:
Russia seems to be doing better against it!
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Russia raises issues.
They have had a large spike in what they are calling pneumonia deaths.
Until very recently they had only one lab in Siberia carrying out tests.
Govt control of information and media makes it difficult to accept numbers.
They are ramping up containment measures and quarantining. Putin has said those not obeying instructions face up to 5 years in prison.
Again it is a country where people are more used to (and likely to) obey govt advice
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Walsgrave said:
When it suits them they will be i.e. when there is a crisis such as this. By the looks of things, it seems like few are behaving in a socially conservative manner too.
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The biggest group of U.K. voters is social conservative and soft left politically. That’s the entire problem with Labours socially liberal strategy and the reason Boris won a landslide on social conservatism and soft left appearing policies on public services.
 
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djr8369

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
It's like with the supermarkets, if people just acted as normal we'd be fine but people are acting like selfish pricks.

I walk the dog in the memorial park all the time, before all this you'd only see a handful of people unless it was a bank holiday or some event. Now its rammed with people sitting around in groups drinking, having picnics etc. They aren't gong for a walk to get a bit of exercise / air. Not to mention there's now loads of rubbish and broken glass where they can't even be bothered to clear up after themselves.
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People are such shits. Littering in any circumstances is one of the lowest things you can do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
shmmeee said:
Should everyone have backed Chamberlain in the thirties?
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Well... again, you've missed my point.

But, let's go hiostorical ;)

On a very basic level the answer is yes... and they did! hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the initial strategy wasn't wrong, and was the popular one at the time. Churchill was seen as the maverick, the outsider. Two things that can be drawn from that:

Following the herd(excuse the reference) on here isn't automatically the 'right' thing to do.

Strong leadership can often involve going against the grain of public opinion. Churchill was a strong leader. Johnson's arguably shown he isn't by changing course... although arguably it was always set up for this anyway, it's just happened quicker than expected.

Now, again, what I'm really trying to avoid is the personalising. In having a slightly different view I'm not hoping people die, I'm not a wanker, and none of us really know the 'right' course of action... other than (as I've always said!) ultimately we have to follow advice given by goivernment at this time, if it's advice drawn from experts. Sometimes, that may end up wrong... Got no issue with pointing out the NHS is badly equipped to deal with this because of the self-same government etc., but it's a swiftly moving situation, and things change. personally I find it surprising that civil liberties are shut down so much, so quickly. I have little choice but to follow it, but I am nervous...

Oh, a further aside, Chamberlain was one of Churchill's more trusted confidantes, and he wrote very warmly in his private papers when he died. A lot of the reinvention is as much that the history of Churchill was written by... Churchill.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
Well... again, you've missed my point.

But, let's go hiostorical ;)

On a very basic level the answer is yes... and they did! hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the initial strategy wasn't wrong, and was the popular one at the time. Churchill was seen as the maverick, the outsider. Two things that can be drawn from that:

Following the herd(excuse the reference) on here isn't automatically the 'right' thing to do.

Strong leadership can often involve going against the grain of public opinion. Churchill was a strong leader. Johnson's arguably shown he isn't by changing course... although arguably it was always set up for this anyway, it's just happened quicker than expected.

Now, again, what I'm really trying to avoid is the personalising. In having a slightly different view I'm not hoping people die, I'm not a wanker, and none of us really know the 'right' course of action... other than (as I've always said!) ultimately we have to follow advice given by goivernment at this time, if it's advice drawn from experts. Sometimes, that may end up wrong... Got no issue with pointing out the NHS is badly equipped to deal with this because of the self-same government etc., but it's a swiftly moving situation, and things change. personally I find it surprising that civil liberties are shut down so much, so quickly. I have little choice but to follow it, but I am nervous...

Oh, a further aside, Chamberlain was one of Churchill's more trusted confidantes, and he wrote very warmly in his private papers when he died. A lot of the reinvention is as much that the history of Churchill was written by... Churchill.
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Well agree to disagree here but I think you’re placing far to much stock in the idea we were following purely scientific advice and that the fact we were out on our own with a risky strategy was clear to anyone even half following what was going on.
 
RegTheDonk

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I think food issues will ease - staffing was an issue I think and also the 24 hour opening. Restocking was as much an issue as anything else. Today the shops other than the usual strange items actually looked better and certainly more related to normality
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Truely hope you are correct G and it eases, but for the moment I guess it depends where you go ....

cc84cov said:
Just seen footage of Tesco - Dudley Jesus lord truly shocking
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Saw that on news and doesn't surprise me. Similar problem at Tesco Quinton where the NHS were supposed to get first dibs but half of them couldn't get on the car park as the gen public were also queuing up. One Nurse gave up and tried Sainsburys at Blackheath, where she was telling my missus how bad it was.

Rumour (Facebook of course!) is that Tesco and Sainsburys are going to stop putting trollys out, making it baskets only and more difficult for people to buy more than they need. A possible solution, but that would mean more people having to go more often - more chances of passing the virus along.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
shmmeee said:
Well agree to disagree here but I think you’re placing far to much stock in the idea we were following purely scientific advice and that the fact we were out on our own with a risky strategy was clear to anyone even half following what was going on.
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We can indeed agree to disagree, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The emotive personalisation is the problem, however. If I say I'm uncomfortable with this strategy long-term, I'm not needing my Mum to die to appreciate the situation. if my Mum dies of course I'd be gutted... but then I always would be, for whatever reason.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
RegTheDonk said:
Truely hope you are correct G and it eases, but for the moment I guess it depends where you go ....


Saw that on news and doesn't surprise me. Similar problem at Tesco Quinton where the NHS were supposed to get first dibs but half of them couldn't get on the car park as the gen public were also queuing up. One Nurse gave up and tried Sainsburys at Blackheath, where she was telling my missus how bad it was.

Rumour (Facebook of course!) is that Tesco and Sainsburys are going to stop putting trollys out, making it baskets only and more difficult for people to buy more than they need. A possible solution, but that would mean more people having to go more often - more chances of passing the virus along.
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The missus was just talking to a nurse she works with who went for the NHS hour, couldn’t get in and found it so stressful she left.

I’ve just been on a load of veg and meat box sites for local farms and they’re all saying they aren’t taking new customers due to demand.

Current situation really isnt working.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
More like two weeks, though today’s numbers are hopeful, we’ve had days like that before only to shoot up afterwards. Let’s hope Italy have peaked and that means we can probably get away with four weeks total lockdown. Of course it’s once they take the restrictions off and how fast it rises that determines how quickly the restrictions will need to go back on again. I’m hoping a month of lockdown means people take the less serious measures more seriously after, but wouldn’t be surprised if people take a “Make the most of it while we can” attitude.
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what were the numbers today?
 
BackRoomRummermill

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
The military being brought into the planning at long last , this will get sorted out quickly now . I remember when I was in the military and we sorted out foot and mouth in 4 weeks while bumbling defra spent months , it was easy we just killed everything in a 50 mile radius , road blocked everywhere to stop access . I hated it though didn’t have a BBQ for about 8 years afterwards as it made me feel physically sick the smell of meat burning
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
That's actually some people's narrative.
The mad think is I've actually given him some praise for some of the stuff he's done during this crisis.
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me too- my parents seem to feel perked up after seeing him on TV, it cheers them up & that’s a good thing. But seems you’re not allowed to be balanced, it’s the case that “you must be behind Boris 100% unquestioningly or you’re a c**t”
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
ccfc1234 said:
Agree do they seriously think. Corbyn, McDonald and Dianne Abbott would be doing a better job in these unprecendented set of circumstances? If be nice if they could explain how.

This is a horrible time and one we need cross party working to get through this. I hope the left, right and centre ground politicians are being more measured and collaborative about things than some of the posters on here.
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small minded doesn’t even begin to cover this
 
Johhny Blue

Johhny Blue

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
It was open because it’s Mother’s Day and most of the stall holders will be self employed people banking on the money from Mother Day to make ends meet and haven’t been given any indication the government will support them otherwise. You can’t ask people to shut down their livelihood and not explain how they’ll live.
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Or if they'll live
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
me too- my parents seem to feel perked up after seeing him on TV, it cheers them up & that’s a good thing. But seems you’re not allowed to be balanced, it’s the case that “you must be behind Boris 100% unquestioningly or you’re a c**t”
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Hmmm, not quite ROS (well certainly not from a majority on here) but some of the stuff/criticism has been has been factually incorrect/OTT....other stuff very much valid
 
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