Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (133 Viewers)

[skybluesam66]

A centralised procurement process and organisation was set up a few years ago which all Trusts pay for.

incorrect - some private firms operate it, and the trusts choose whether to opt in. Some do and some dont - even then there are several of these firms

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

Has been for 2-3 weeks mate



What’s the point in quarantining when we already have high numbers here (especially if they’re coming from lower confirmed case country) ? Everyone should self isolate with symptoms anyway and social distance if outside without symptoms

"Whats the point in quarantining when we already have high numbers here"
Is that a serious question?

 

[clint van damme]

Makes absolutely no difference whether type 1 or type 2 in terms of vulnerability. It's just part of the general misunderstanding of type 2.

So my company's HR got it wrong. Shock horror the useless bastards.

 

[CCFCSteve]

"Whats the point in quarantining when we already have high numbers here"
Is that a serious question?

Yes. We already probably have hundreds of thousands of cases here, we have measures which mean people shouldn’t be leaving their house anyway and if they have symptoms they should be self isolating for at least 7 days. So what’s the point in setting up big quarantining facilities for the hundreds of thousands returning to the country ?

 

[SkyBlueDog]

It actually wouldn't surprise me if there was a war against China after all this is done. It would literally be the world against Wuhan!

Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

World War Wuhan? I think we've already done that one

 

[CCFCSteve]

But I thought the government said there is no problem with PPE & ventilators and that testing is being ramped up, is that not quite true?

Looking likely that no funds will be paid until at least the end of May but probably June or even later, and the info thats needed is highly onerous but also some is highly subjective raising big concerns about how they will actually decide who can claim. Firms are still being told that it will be better to lay off than take the risk of applying- too much vagueness and grey areas. Its a mess basically.

I’ve spoken to four companies directly that are all furloughing staff, each to their own though.

Nobody’s said there aren’t issues with the other stuff. Ventilators are due to be delivered next week and by all accounts we haven’t breached capacity (yet) - I think we will in certain locations as I understand we do with seasonal flu at times, but hopefully the new ventilators and breathing aids will minimise this.

Testing for nhs staff are PPE are both things that need sorting asap.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yes. We already probably have hundreds of thousands of cases here, we have measures which mean people shouldn’t be leaving their house anyway and if they have symptoms they should be self isolating for at least 7 days. So what’s the point in setting up big quarantining facilities for the hundreds of thousands returning to the country ?

Hundreds of thousands you say? Last thing I heard from your side of things it was just cargo and people being repatriated

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Spain had another awful day by the looks of it

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I’ve spoken to four companies directly that are all furloughing staff, each to their own though.

Nobody’s said there aren’t issues with the other stuff. Ventilators are due to be delivered next week and by all accounts we haven’t breached capacity (yet) - I think we will in certain locations as I understand we do with seasonal flu at times, but hopefully the new ventilators and breathing aids will minimise this.

Testing for nhs staff are PPE are both things that need sorting asap.

Your excuses and deflection for things that the whole country and rest of world can see as glaring problems is not a good look. We've been hearing that things are "about" to be delivered every day- they aren't and they are bullshitting every day about it. But at least you concede after all this time that testing & PPE have been badly managed. Not the time to be playing politics- deal in fact, take the party out of it.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Hundreds of thousands you say? Last thing I heard from your side of things it was just cargo and people being repatriated

There are apparently hundreds of thousands of UK citizens that might have to be repatriated (as per gov briefing earlier in the week).

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Spain had another awful day by the looks of it

From what I saw Spain will overtake Italy relatively soon as the most affected by this bastard fucking virus.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

There are apparently hundreds of thousands of UK citizens that might have to be repatriated (as per gov briefing earlier in the week).

Was this the same government briefing that said we had more ventilators than we actually do, or the one which lied about test numbers?

 

[chiefdave]

This furlough scheme is another shambles- 6 mths cashflow statetements, statement of personal assets, mgt accounts, no portal up and running, no word on who qualifies

Is that for furlough or the loan scheme? The loan scheme does seem a bit of a shambles as its being left to the banks to asses if companies are eligible and it will come as no surprise they are trying to divert people on to loans they will make money from.

Starting to see some of our clients furloughing people and IMO the scheme is not being used as intended if what I'm seeing is common. Looks like smaller companies are doing their best to keep going with everyone working from home. Its the bigger companies that seem to be making use of furlough however I'm seeing companies whose work hasn't been impacted furloughing the majority of their non-fee earners while piling the work of those they've furloughed onto others. For me companies that can afford to pay tens of millions in dividends to the owners annually shouldn't really be using this as an excuse to save money, at the expense of their lowest paid workers, while increasing the workload for those who remain employed.

Also seems employment law has gone out of the window. Seeing lots of clients making changes to pay and conditions with no consultation. Obviously we're in exceptional circumstances but doesn't the law still apply? I have a suspicion many of these changes will remain in place long after things get back to normal.

 

[TomRad85]

World War Wuhan? I think we've already done that one

Sounds like the new Call Of Duty game.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[CCFCSteve]

Your excuses and deflection for things that the whole country and rest of world can see as glaring problems is not a good look. We've been hearing that things are "about" to be delivered every day- they aren't and they are bullshitting every day about it. But at least you concede after all this time that testing & PPE have been badly managed. Not the time to be playing politics- deal in fact, take the party out of it.

nothing to do with party (I’ve voted for both main political parties on more than one occasion - I ignored the Tory comments as I took them in jest). I just have a balanced view on wider matters, appreciate some of the challenges and try to focus at some of the positives rather than trying to turn everything into a negative. Maybe that’s just me though

 

[CCFCSteve]

Is that for furlough or the loan scheme? The loan scheme does seem a bit of a shambles as its being left to the banks to asses if companies are eligible and it will come as no surprise they are trying to divert people on to loans they will make money from.

Starting to see some of our clients furloughing people and IMO the scheme is not being used as intended if what I'm seeing is common. Looks like smaller companies are doing their best to keep going with everyone working from home. Its the bigger companies that seem to be making use of furlough however I'm seeing companies whose work hasn't been impacted furloughing the majority of their non-fee earners while piling the work of those they've furloughed onto others. For me companies that can afford to pay tens of millions in dividends to the owners annually shouldn't really be using this as an excuse to save money, at the expense of their lowest paid workers, while increasing the workload for those who remain employed.

Also seems employment law has gone out of the window. Seeing lots of clients making changes to pay and conditions with no consultation. Obviously we're in exceptional circumstances but doesn't the law still apply? I have a suspicion many of these changes will remain in place long after things get back to normal.

The banks were trying to take the piss with the government backed loans, hopefully sorting themselves out now as it was unacceptable

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

From what I saw Spain will overtake Italy relatively soon as the most affected by this bastard fucking virus.

Concerning, it doesn't look like the lockdown is working at all there..... at least with Italy it seems to have peaked on the 26th with daily cases and has fallen since then, also with the deaths peaking on the 27th and since flattening down... (Although the last 2 days have gone up slowly)

Italy Coronavirus: 105,792 Cases and 12,428 Deaths - Worldometer

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Is that for furlough or the loan scheme? The loan scheme does seem a bit of a shambles as its being left to the banks to asses if companies are eligible and it will come as no surprise they are trying to divert people on to loans they will make money from.

Starting to see some of our clients furloughing people and IMO the scheme is not being used as intended if what I'm seeing is common. Looks like smaller companies are doing their best to keep going with everyone working from home. Its the bigger companies that seem to be making use of furlough however I'm seeing companies whose work hasn't been impacted furloughing the majority of their non-fee earners while piling the work of those they've furloughed onto others. For me companies that can afford to pay tens of millions in dividends to the owners annually shouldn't really be using this as an excuse to save money, at the expense of their lowest paid workers, while increasing the workload for those who remain employed.

Also seems employment law has gone out of the window. Seeing lots of clients making changes to pay and conditions with no consultation. Obviously we're in exceptional circumstances but doesn't the law still apply? I have a suspicion many of these changes will remain in place long after things get back to normal.

Its both- you're right about loans, its totally up to the banks what interest rate will apply. Nat West will use base rate and take a look at your accounts to generate an interest rate based on what you can afford, and they come across as pretty reasonable, but they are saying that other banks are already being a lot more cutthroat and trying to make a lot of money- there are some cowboys out there operating in an unregulated way. The government are saying its totally up to the banks, so you have to choose very carefully. Added to that they have dropped "wrongful trading" as a weapon to go after directors of failed companies, so we are going to see a pretty lethal combination of directors/ owners taking more risk, potentially taking financing from the wrong people with extortionate rates, having a "gung ho" high risk crack at staying afloat, and coming to a terrible demise.

Contract law still applies- for example if you want to furlough someone you must get their agreement if that is not stated in their contact, and anyone doing the things you refer to are facing a lot of legal problems- employment law still stands and is enforceable. The main thing to be careful of is that if you furlough people you must have them stating it in an out of office message, and they cannot even look at a single email- it will be audited and the govt will claim back any money against people who didn't have an out of office stating it and/or who did as much as look at a single work email.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Was this the same government briefing that said we had more ventilators than we actually do, or the one which lied about test numbers?

Points the same, whether it’s tens or hundreds of thousands. If people are following government measures on arrival there appears little benefit in setting up large quarantining centres now (would agree with you if we weren’t in lockdown)

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Concerning, it doesn't look like the lockdown is working at all there..... at least with Italy it seems to have peaked on the 26th with daily cases and has fallen since then, also with the deaths peaking on the 27th and since flattening down... (Although the last 2 days have gone up slowly)

Italy Coronavirus: 105,792 Cases and 12,428 Deaths - Worldometer

How far were Spain behind Italy?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

UK coronavirus cases could number 1.8MILLION, scientists say | Daily Mail Online

Backing up theories like this will be possible once we get the antibody tests, lets hope they come before mid june ey

 

[Nick]

I work in IT. We've just had our busiest month ever by a long way, roughly 30% up on our previous busiest month.

Yeah everybody wants it and infrastructure now they are working from home

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

How far were Spain behind Italy?

Isn't it a few days? This next week will be crucial in terms of numbers for Spain and Italy relating to if the lock down has worked

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Isn't it a few days? This next week will be crucial in terms of numbers for Spain and Italy relating to if the lock down has worked

You can already see it in Italy. The uneducated on here hate this graph, but its the best piece of info out there to show things properly- look at Italy. If we want to see whether lockdown is working we have to look at new cases.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You can already see it in Italy. The uneducated on here hate this graph, but its the best piece of info out there to show things properly- look at Italy. If we want to see whether lockdown is working we have to look at new cases.

Haven't seen that graph before, that deffo gives hope that Italy has turned the corner... interesting to see if France and Germany follow on a similar path

 

[shmmeee]

Concerning, it doesn't look like the lockdown is working at all there..... at least with Italy it seems to have peaked on the 26th with daily cases and has fallen since then, also with the deaths peaking on the 27th and since flattening down... (Although the last 2 days have gone up slowly)

Italy Coronavirus: 105,792 Cases and 12,428 Deaths - Worldometer

Thought you might like this version of the graph showing new cases, a little more positive and looks like Spain are just hitting the peak:



Note to self: refresh page before posting

 

[MalcSB]

incorrect - some private firms operate it, and the trusts choose whether to opt in. Some do and some dont - even then there are several of these firms

So you are saying Trusts haven’t been topsliced to fund this? I agree that some Trusts don’t use the process which was being monitored (and a really helpful league table produced). Some Truts were able to source cheaper than the National process, which itself begs a question. Process set up as a response to Lord Carter of Coles.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I’m self isolating. 7 days minimum. I work with vulnerable people and have been cautious in washing and using gel etc. Can do computer stuff from home.

I think they are mild symptoms at the moment. Not even sure it is the c word and a bit skeptical.

symptoms.
Occasional cough initially. increasing frequency hacking and dry.
No high temp. Yet
Neck and shoulder muscle aches.
Headache,
Some lethargy.
Contacted nhs online 111. Can get a certificate but work does not require it.

 

[shmmeee]

I’m self isolating. 7 days minimum. I work with vulnerable people and have been cautious in washing and using gel etc. Can do computer stuff from home.

I think they are mild symptoms at the moment. Not even sure it is the c word and a bit skeptical.

symptoms.
Occasional cough initially. increasing frequency hacking and dry.
No high temp. Yet
Neck and shoulder muscle aches.
Headache,
Some lethargy.
Contacted nhs online 111. Can get a certificate but work does not require it.

Sounds like what I had/have (still got the cough three weeks after it started). It’s either CV or there’s a similar bug going round.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I’m self isolating. 7 days minimum. I work with vulnerable people and have been cautious in washing and using gel etc. Can do computer stuff from home.

I think they are mild symptoms at the moment. Not even sure it is the c word and a bit skeptical.

symptoms.
Occasional cough initially. increasing frequency hacking and dry.
No high temp. Yet
Neck and shoulder muscle aches.
Headache,
Some lethargy.
Contacted nhs online 111. Can get a certificate but work does not require it.

I 100% agree- I have sore ears and eyes, very mild sniffles, no fever or coughing at all and no headache, feel a bit achy and lethargic. Also really fucking grumpy so apologies to anyone I've been a c*nt at I don't think this is the virus and I'm always lethargic and achy, but how the hell do you know. I guess I'll know in 7 days...

 

[Flying Fokker]

The caveat to that is if it does turn out China has been misleading the world over its fatalities then there will be a limited backlash.
Many countries based their strategies on data China provided - if that data was falsified then some countries will find it hard to convince people to trade with China in the short-term.

More fool us for not interrogating the information.

Universities are going to struggle if China backs off.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Portal was never going to be up and running (they said on announcement that it would be end April - that’s probably unrealistic but finger crossed). The government backed loans were due to plug the gap in short term.

There can be genuine issues/concerns ie ventilators, PPE distribution and testing of NHS staff but moaning about everything just dilutes this

Ps companies have got weeks to pull together supporting docs for furloughed scheme and I’d rather have some qualification than just pay out every claim as this is going to cost us all

Still think a UBI would have been simpler and more effective

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Thought you might like this version of the graph showing new cases, a little more positive and looks like Spain are just hitting the peak:

View attachment 14730

Note to self: refresh page before posting

Deffo good to see, how come Japan and South Korea have done so well?

 

[chiefdave]

Yeah everybody wants it and infrastructure now they are working from home

Spoke too soon. Despite being busier than ever, did an extra 4 hours unpaid yesterday to try and keep up with the workload, and classed as keyworkers as we support medical facilites and food producers among others just been told that Friday will be my last day before being furloughed.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Still think a UBI would have been simpler and more effective

Definitely would’ve been simpler. I’d wonder how many businesses would’ve still made people redundant with the UBI though ? I believe the scheme is trying its best to allow/encourage businesses to retain staff and mothball for (hopefully only) a three month period

ps not a perfect scheme and there will always be issues with something announced/rolled out quickly. Just hope it’s enough to keep good businesses afloat (in conjunction with any grants for smaller businesses and gov backed loans to plug any short term funding gaps - need banks to step up though !)