The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (192 Viewers)

[wingy]

Oh well
This thread had died, however this is behind a paywall.

Et toi, Papa? Boris Johnson’s dad seeks to become a French citizen | News | The Sunday Times

 

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[shmmeee]

‘Member Brexit?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Nah there's tryouts for the dinghy shooting squad

You is well boring bro.

 

[chiefdave]

While everyone is concentrating on Cummings and coronavirus MPs have voted against maintaining food standards when we leave the EU.
Jacob Anthony: I’m furious at MPs' Agriculture Bill vote - Farmers Weekly

 

[Sick Boy]

While everyone is concentrating on Cummings and coronavirus MPs have voted against maintaining food standards when we leave the EU.
Jacob Anthony: I’m furious at MPs' Agriculture Bill vote - Farmers Weekly

Wow, that’s a surprise.

 

[skybluetony176]

While everyone is concentrating on Cummings and coronavirus MPs have voted against maintaining food standards when we leave the EU.
Jacob Anthony: I’m furious at MPs' Agriculture Bill vote - Farmers Weekly

Doesn’t matter anyway. As Coronavirus has shown farms in this country can’t survive without FOM anyway so we’ll be importing all our food anyway. #takingbackcontrol.

 

[Mcbean]

Err not quite sure I can agree with that - yes we will have to import what farmers can’t grow here through year round but grain beef lamb and milk products can be produced here at a margin - I pay more for my milk To be delivered , the farmers get more of it - once the oil price goes up all produce will increase in price due to our exchange rate including those that are imported - we need to support British farmers - they are the guardians of the countryside that everybody wants to get out and enjoy at these difficult times - our farm shop is within walking distance , they were organised very quickly to keep people safe .

 

[clint van damme]

Err not quite sure I can agree with that - yes we will have to import what farmers can’t grow here through year round but grain beef lamb and milk products can be produced here at a margin - I pay more for my milk To be delivered , the farmers get more of it - once the oil price goes up all produce will increase in price due to our exchange rate including those that are imported - we need to support British farmers - they are the guardians of the countryside that everybody wants to get out and enjoy at these difficult times - our farm shop is within walking distance , they were organised very quickly to keep people safe .

There reliance on foreign labour has been demonstrated through this crisis.
If they need to start looking to local Labour that's going to drive up prices.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing and might stop us being so wasteful but I'm not a young parent trying to feed 3 kids on a budget so that's easy for me to say.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Doesn’t matter anyway. As Coronavirus has shown farms in this country can’t survive without FOM anyway so we’ll be importing all our food anyway. #takingbackcontrol.

What utter tosh. You never tire of it.

 

[clint van damme]

What utter tosh. You never tire of it.

We had to fly Romanians in!

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

true...But we all know its not quite as straightforward as "workshy brits" won't do it but the Romanians will....

Many of the farms require the workers to live on site (and then charge the workers a rent for the privilege of living in the salubrious accommodation provided)

Some UK recruiters even got hundreds of UK nationals to agree to such slavish terms, only to be told that they required a gangmaster licence in order to place so many workers on site.....A licence which takes approx 10 weeks to process the application, by which time the product has rotted in the ground....
...So back to the tried & tested Eastern European gang trade they go.....the whole systems fucked up.

 

[Ian1779]

true...But we all know its not quite as straightforward as "workshy brits" won't do it but the Romanians will....

Many of the farms require the workers to live on site (and then charge the workers a rent for the privilege of living in the salubrious accommodation provided)

Some UK recruiters even got hundreds of UK nationals to agree to such slavish terms, only to be told that they required a gangmaster licence in order to place so many workers on site.....A licence which takes approx 10 weeks to process the application, by which time the product has rotted in the ground....
...So back to the tried & tested Eastern European gang trade they go.....the whole systems fucked up.

Its things like this that need to be fundamentally changed - but that takes the will to do so. Will unscrupulous (even the scrupulous one) employers be prepared for the loss of profits? Will supermarkets pay more for the food to allow this to happen? Will consumers accept that prices would end up rising as a result?

It’s a mess from start to finish.

 

[Paxman II]

How the hell do you think we did it in the past?

 

[clint van damme]

Its things like this that need to be fundamentally changed - but that takes the will to do so. Will unscrupulous (even the scrupulous one) employers be prepared for the loss of profits? Will supermarkets pay more for the food to allow this to happen? Will consumers accept that prices would end up rising as a result?

It’s a mess from start to finish.

Apparently a lot of these processes can be automated but it's not cost effective when Labour is so cheap.
If Labour costs keep rising perhaps automation becomes more viable.

 

[wingy]

How the hell do you think we did it in the past?

With paupers?
Only joking and a tad flippant !

 

[chiefdave]

How the hell do you think we did it in the past?

Combination of migrants, women and children. Changes in the law in the 1860s, first outlawing children under 8 being land workers followed by compulsory education up to the age of 12, led to a shortage of labour.

The army was drafted in to help but when WW1 broke out they were no longer an option so prisoners of war and the Womens Land Army were used.

The labour shortage continued after the conclusion of WW2 which resulted in the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme being introduced which allowed workers largely from Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union to be brought in.

The use of foreign labour exploded in the 90s as the dominance of a small number of large corporates led to a huge decline in farmers margins which in turn led to a decline in land workers pay.

 

[skybluetony176]

What utter tosh. You never tire of it.

So why are the government paying for advertising of a land army to fill 70K vacancies usually filled by FOM from the EU?

 

[skybluetony176]

A licence which takes approx 10 weeks to process the application, by which time the product has rotted in the ground

You would think that a sovereign majority government free of the EU could sort that. If it involves an eye test there’s already a loophole for that, apparently.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

You would think that a sovereign majority government free of the EU could sort that. If it involves an eye test there’s already a loophole for that, apparently.

I do think A sovereign majority government free of the EU could sort that.......unfortunately, just not THIS particular sovereign majority government...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How the hell do you think we did it in the past?

Exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie

 

[Grendel]

Exploitation of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie

Bit like the eu exploiting its poorer members now then

 

[Mcbean]

There reliance on foreign labour has been demonstrated through this crisis.
If they need to start looking to local Labour that's going to drive up prices.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing and might stop us being so wasteful but I'm not a young parent trying to feed 3 kids on a budget so that's easy for me to say.

You are right and these were the people that did the the job in the past as per the other posts - they liked the job got paid better that in their own country - these jobs are for picking Fruit and Vege where you need hand pick - but please buy British Milk , Lamb , Beef , Chicken , Pork if you can - i know its not always the cheapest but i can say our standards of production are much higher than most in Europe

 

[fernandopartridge]

How the hell do you think we did it in the past?

It isn't particularly relevant tbh. We apparently have record employment in this country, where are the workers coming from to do this work?

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[PVA]

I see the government finally admitted last week there would be Northern Island customs checks.

Which we all knew would be the case.

Despite Johnson and Co INSISTING it wasn't the case.

Despite their papers saying it was.

Nicely hidden away amongst the Corona news so the majority wouldn't have noticed.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

So why are the government paying for advertising of a land army to fill 70K vacancies usually filled by FOM from the EU?

Wouldn't it be a blow to so many on here if a substantial number of those vacancies were filled by Brits and it worked, just like yonks ago when students like me used to do it in the summer. Even worse, some of them chose to come back and do not the following year. How on earth would you cope with that scenario ?
We'll adapt. Its as simple as that .

 

[PVA]

'We'll adapt'

Well that fills me with zero confidence.

We didn't need to adapt, we had a perfectly working system.

But now Patel wants the retired and disabled to do it. Great.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Bit like the eu exploiting its poorer members now then

So as the second largest economy in it at the time you'd think we'd want to stay given how much we could get off others less fortunate than ourselves.

Oh no wait they were all bleeding us dry and looking for free handouts to prop up their failed economies.....

Pick an argument.

 

[PVA]

So as the second largest economy in it at the time you'd think we'd want to stay given how much we could get off others less fortunate than ourselves.

Oh no wait they were all bleeding us dry and looking for free handouts to prop up their failed economies.....

Pick an argument.

Haha well said. The levels of hypocrisy in their arguments is incredible.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

'We'll adapt'

Well that fills me with zero confidence.

We didn't need to adapt, we had a perfectly working system.

But now Patel wants the retired and disabled to do it. Great.

Are you going to lose sleep over it. ?

 

[PVA]

Are you going to lose sleep over it. ?

What sort of a response is that?

Deflection, whataboutery. The usual.

 

[skybluetony176]

Wouldn't it be a blow to so many on here if a substantial number of those vacancies were filled by Brits and it worked, just like yonks ago when students like me used to do it in the summer. Even worse, some of them chose to come back and do not the following year. How on earth would you cope with that scenario ?
We'll adapt. Its as simple as that .

Well, given it’s an imaginary scenario dreamed up to avoid giving a structured answer I’ll cope just fine.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Well, given it’s an imaginary scenario dreamed up to avoid giving a structured answer I’ll cope just fine.

What sort of answer would you like ?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

What sort of a response is that?

Deflection, whataboutery. The usual.

The usual ? What would you like as an answer ?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I see the government finally admitted last week there would be Northern Island customs checks.

Which we all knew would be the case.

Despite Johnson and Co INSISTING it wasn't the case.

Despite their papers saying it was.

Nicely hidden away amongst the Corona news so the majority wouldn't have noticed.

Wow. You're excellent at pointing out what has happened . I bet you had us down for winning league 1 since the season kicked off in August.

 

[PVA]

Wow. You're excellent at pointing out what has happened . I bet you had us down for winning league 1 since the season kicked off in August.

I'm pointing out facts. You're making up scenarios and asking if I'll lose sleep. Do you see the difference?

The government lied. Do you deny that?