Council funding for Ricoh Refurb (25 Viewers)

[oldfiver]

Oh yeah totally, there’s questions about how exactly the trust soured between Sisu and CCC and how exactly deals broke down, but I suspect we’ll be hearing about them for the next twenty years or more. But from an immediate CCFC angle, all that matters really is the legalities

What’s next? I’m hoping that’s it, it’s always come across as a last throw of the dice.

Surely there comes a point where Sisu have to accept defeat and move on to whatever their plan for the club is? If nothing else they can’t seriously commit to a new ground while there’s a chance of developments at the Ricoh can they?

So to come full circle- whats the "indemnity" for ? I'll get my coat

 

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[shmmeee]

Depends what the developments would be, I guess.

And there'll always be an angle! We probably have the civil cases regardless of who finds what, I'd say. And there'll be an angle we haven't thought of, however clued up on financial law we are now(!)

But even then, there comes a point where the cost of being homeless exceeds the potential payoff. Assuming this is still about financial rewards for Sisu and Joy isn’t really on a moral crusade.

The five year timescale for UoW gives us enough headroom for the current stuff to be resolved, I’d imagine after that they’d get pretty pissed off and clearly there aren’t any other sites in the area.

Really hoping this is all coming to a head soon.

 

[shmmeee]

So to come full circle- whats the "indemnity" for ? I'll get my coat

Still working on the assumption that Wasps want security at the Ricoh and to not have the threat of legal action hanging over it. Not seen anything to suggest that’s not the case.

 

[oldfiver]

What you're saying is essentially what any EC investigation will deal with, if they decide to proceed. We all know it was one deal but the technicalities of the law in the UK mean it is treated as separate transactions. If the EC feel it should be treated as one then they will look at where UK law is incompatible with state aid law.

Bet that was written by a tax lawyer!!

 

[oldfiver]

Still working on the assumption that Wasps want security at the Ricoh and to not have the threat of legal action hanging over it. Not seen anything to suggest that’s not the case.

But the indemnity presumably was prepared at the time of purchase and before legal actions

 

[chiefdave]

Bet that was written by a tax lawyer!!

It was what I was told by one of our clients lawyers who deals with the EC a lot. I assume he knows more about it than I do!

 

[shmmeee]

But the indemnity presumably was prepared at the time of purchase and before legal actions

Why do you say that?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But even then, there comes a point where the cost of being homeless exceeds the potential payoff. Assuming this is still about financial rewards for Sisu and Joy isn’t really on a moral crusade.

Now, I've said all the way through this... but Seppala's USP is being strong, and not backing down. It benefits her more in the long run for future negotiations with other businesses if they know it's often easier to cut a deal, even if not the best deal for them...

(It's a pretty standard hedge fund tactic btw, fight or flight, summed up by the likes of Peter Temple, if you want the references for the general trends )

Have to look at this in a wider context. SISU either win it (great) or it reaffirms she's a woman not to be messed with.

 

[shmmeee]

Do we think the COVID changes to state aid law are slowing this down? I saw somewhere that there’s been a record number of applications and they’re being assessed in record time. I wonder if stuff like our case is on the back burner until COVID is out of the way. I’d expect the serious economic interventions are still to come for a lot of countries.

Could be we hit Dec 31st before a judgement, and it’s all down to the Brexit deal we strike (or don’t).

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Fuck off with your idiocy now.

Unlike moronic cocks like you, I'll look at things on the evidence.

Can't see how this one makes any sense.

Now stop being a vapid twat and get yourself some brain cleansing.

Snide wankerisms while thinking you're being too clever for yourself do nothing.

Asyouwere

What do you think to over £5m being given to the Ricoh arena?

 

[martincov]

I am not sure of what you are saying. In brief mortgaging a property with a short lease is very difficult and not a high LTV.

I am not sure either, there are many questions to whole debacle. like others i raise questions. there is an answer but what answer or end ?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Do we think the COVID changes to state aid law are slowing this down? I saw somewhere that there’s been a record number of applications and they’re being assessed in record time. I wonder if stuff like our case is on the back burner until COVID is out of the way. I’d expect the serious economic interventions are still to come for a lot of countries.

Could be we hit Dec 31st before a judgement, and it’s all down to the Brexit deal we strike (or don’t).

The applications will be public bodies applying for exemptions I think not application for review

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What do you think to over £5m being given to the Ricoh arena?

Can't see how this one makes any sense.

In a wider sense, I haven't looked at it in any great detail to be able to justify it. I have no desire to, either

Tell you what though, morons who decide to play teams with this are exactly how Brexit and Trump turned into shitshows. The only team worth noting in this is CCFC, not SISU, CCC, Wasps or Gary Hoffman's pert buttocks.

 

[oldfiver]

Why do you say that?

Because you would assume all DD etc would be carried out pre exchange. It is most unusual for either party to go back and say " oh by the way we forgot to cover this can we change ..."

 

[shmmeee]

The applications will be public bodies applying for exemptions I think not application for review

Wonder why it’s taking so long.

Thinking about it I think we decided before that even if we don’t abide by the judgement it should provide the required basis for a civil claim anyway. So maybe Brexit doesn’t matter that much.

 

[martincov]

I am not sure either, there are many questions to whole debacle. like others i raise questions. there is an answer but what answer or end ?

Its not a short lease its 250 years, effectively it gives ownership but not in entirety. its all legal and legal can be picked at. ?

 

[shmmeee]

Because you would assume all DD etc would be carried out pre exchange. It is most unusual for either party to go back and say " oh by the way we forgot to cover this can we change ..."

Sorry I’m lost. How would Sisu be involved in the DD? Why would an agreement between Wasps and Sisu need agreeing for a deal between CCC and Wasps?

 

[oldfiver]

The applications will be public bodies applying for exemptions I think not application for review

Do we know which Country and where is hosting the complaint? It could be in shutdown?

 

[oldfiver]

Sorry I’m lost. How would Sisu be involved in the DD? Why would an agreement between Wasps and Sisu need agreeing for a deal between CCC and Wasps?

The indemnity between WASPs and CCC

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well seems a lot of you have been triggered by this. I'm not against any funding for improvements to the Ricoh Arena to facilitate the games. What everyone is triggered about is whether it's a direct bung effectively to WASP.
I would suggest we need much more information before we can object.

As it stands WASP have a commecial lease, and presumably a full repairing and insuring lease as is normal. That would mean ongoing repairs, maintenance for the most part are WASP responsability. But if the Freeholder (Landlords) want to make improvements to the building then they can. So the question is whether this grant of 3.8m is given directly to WASP which I doubt. If your landlord came along and improved your house, you are not going to resist are you?
The next question is what is 3.8m being spent on? And the final question if this improves facilities at the Ricoh with publicly granted money, at what point does that benefit the public purse as opposed to benefitting WASP under their ownership? Will the lease rent be reviewed and raised? Will the council be refunded profits from the event after WASP running cost?

I think a lot more information is needed before a rush of heads. It's the figure of 3.8m that is troublesome for such a small event and some cosmetic improvements. It would be very wrong should any of these funds benefit WASP tenure in any way.

I think that’s fair!! So the question to wasps is why is Steven Vaughan so happy and what is the money being spent on and who is doing the spending? Sv is talking as it’s money that they will be managing and using to aid their business and regenerate that area of coventry. Well it says continue but I can’t work out what they may have done already

 

[shmmeee]

The indemnity between WASPs and CCC

What indemnity between Wasps and CCC?

The one that broke down negotiations? That’s between Sisu and Wasps. CCC have explicitly said they didn’t ask for it. As I said, I’m assuming until proven otherwise that no one is outright lying here. Wasps could easily see that indemnity as required for whatever they think Sisu have planned. No reason to think CCC asked for it during the sale. I doubt they’d explicitly say something that could be proven false, it would open up a minefield for them.

 

[Nick]

Didn't take long did it

 

[oldfiver]

Didn't take long did it

Is it me ????

 

[Liquid Gold]

Oh look. A thread about wide open council corruption is being taken off course by arguing about the same points from the past over and over again.

Coventry City Council are corrupt.

 

[Grendel]

What indemnity between Wasps and CCC?

The one that broke down negotiations? That’s between Sisu and Wasps. CCC have explicitly said they didn’t ask for it. As I said, I’m assuming until proven otherwise that no one is outright lying here. Wasps could easily see that indemnity as required for whatever they think Sisu have planned. No reason to think CCC asked for it during the sale. I doubt they’d explicitly say something that could be proven false, it would open up a minefield for them.

Oh just stop it

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Wasps are in the shitter and struggling due to COVID and are due another ccc bailout

 

[Grendel]

A 250 year lease is a freehold for all intents and purposes. This was covered in the JR. That’s why Wasps paid £1m for it, that was what KPMG valued the freehold at after ACL had put £21m in already. Which is why the judges ruled it wasn’t State Aid ultimately.

You know full well that a 200 year extension improves the asset value of the property significantly more than the purchase price. Ask yourself why ACL never had it at inception but instead an absurdly low lease period

 

[shmmeee]

You know full well that a 200 year extension improves the asset value of the property significantly more than the purchase price. Ask yourself why ACL never had it at inception but instead an absurdly low lease period

Again. Take it up with the people making the argument. I’m just reporting the judges reasoning.

The original point was in support of the idea that Wasps essentially got a freehold. That was what I was replying to.

 

[shmmeee]

Oh just stop it

Seriously? What would you like me to stop? Stating the facts as are known and not engaging in childish frothing about things I’ve invented in my head? No, shan’t.

I’ve repeatedly stated i work from the assumption no one is outright lying and go from what we know not what we think.

You carry on with your Twitter beefs, two minute hate sessions and politicial axe grinding if you want. I’m sure you’re moments from cracking the case and getting us back to Cov.

 

[Nick]

It's pretty obvious because you try it on every thread.

 

[shmmeee]

Now, I've said all the way through this... but Seppala's USP is being strong, and not backing down. It benefits her more in the long run for future negotiations with other businesses if they know it's often easier to cut a deal, even if not the best deal for them...

(It's a pretty standard hedge fund tactic btw, fight or flight, summed up by the likes of Peter Temple, if you want the references for the general trends )

Have to look at this in a wider context. SISU either win it (great) or it reaffirms she's a woman not to be messed with.

Im just saying, at some point you’d be better off buying a massive ad campaign saying “Joy’s a ball breaking bitch”.

 

[shmmeee]

It's pretty obvious because you try it on every thread.

OK mate

 

[ccfc1234]

What I don't get is why the funding is going towards what they describe? £3.8m is a lot of money just for a few Judo matches.

It's very dodgy.

The council do need hammering asking how the indemnity links to this type of shit.

Freedom of information requests need to be made. If anyone has an hour spare speak to the Information commissioner (IC) about how you might best explore the topic within guidelines they would support. If the IC say we can have the info they will have to hand it over. As long as it's not 'commercially sensitive' of course.

 

[usskyblue]

It's pretty obvious because you try it on every thread.

 

[ccfc1234]

Fuck off with your idiocy now.

Unlike moronic cocks like you, I'll look at things on the evidence.

Can't see how this one makes any sense.

Now stop being a vapid twat and get yourself some brain cleansing.

Snide wankerisms while thinking you're being too clever for yourself do nothing.

Asyouwere

Northern have some class and try and respect that USAskybkue has a view about your posts on SISU/Ricoh and looking at the amount of likes it's received he is clearly not alone in his thinking. Resorting to insults of a vulgar nature does make you come off as somone with a significant superiority complex. Feel free to disregard this observation as you will no doubt know best.