Nationalism (6 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Really? I remember in I think 1998 I was in Glasgow with work when we played Argentina and the hatred was shocking

I watched us play Italy in the 6 Nations in the pub and there was a guy pounding the bar with delight every time Italy scored because he liked macaroni pie

 

---

[clint van damme]

I watched us play Italy in the 6 Nations in the pub and there was a guy pounding the bar with delight every time Italy scored because he liked macaroni pie

but that's just someone supporting another team, it's not hatred.
Imagine Celtic and Rangers putting their rivalry aside during a derby game to unite in a hatred of the English, it would never happen.
But that's what Arkan lead Partizan and Red Star supporters in doing. uniting them in their hatred of Croats during a Belgrade derby. That's real hatred and rampant nationalism.

 

[Grendel]

but that's going to happen around a football game, I've seen that happen here when Scotland are playing.
And I would add, that when I say I've never had an issue, my visits are almost exclusively Strathclyde, (yes I know that includes Glasgow), I've haven't spent much time further north or on the east coast.

I have never seen it here to be honest

 

[Evo1883]

Clint I like you... But I hate to break the news to you that quite a few Scots just fucking hate us.... Many will vote for independence on that hatred alone

 

[olderskyblue]

I visit some dodgy areas and never had a problem. In fact always treated really well so I've been lucky.
The only time I ever had an issue in a Celtic country was once in Dublin.

I need to offer the other side to my story of course. I’ve had many great visits, and it truly is a wonderful Country, and, like you, met some wonderful people. They are there too.
i watched a lot of the debates on the Scottish referendum and was disappointed by the vitriol coming from a lot of the audiences. maybe they were infiltrated perhaps by the rabid anti English, which may explain why it appeared so weighted with anti English feelings.

 

[clint van damme]

Clint I like you... But I hate to break the news to you that quite a few Scots just fucking hate us

I've no doubt, but I can only speak from my experience and I've never had an issue. I wouldn't tell people who have had different experiences from me they're wrong but I would argue with anyone trying to make out it's anywhere near as bad as the countries I've given examples of because it quite clearly isn't anywhere near.

 

[Grendel]

Clint I like you... But I hate to break the news to you that quite a few Scots just fucking hate us.... Many will vote for independence on that hatred alone

We should offer a hard exit. All support withdrawn currency vanished on day one and WTo terms and just let them get on

Sturgeon of course is hiding from it and when salmond starts his action will be finished anyway

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

but that's just someone supporting another team, it's not hatred.
Imagine Celtic and Rangers putting their rivalry aside during a derby game to unite in a hatred of the English, it would never happen.
But that's what Arkan lead Partizan and Red Star supporters in doing. uniting them in their hatred of Croats during a Belgrade derby. That's real hatred and rampant nationalism.

I know I just found it funny. Though I did have years of listening to ridiculous stereotypes and 700 year old grudge arguments. I never felt unsafe just for being English but at the height of the 2014 vote the atmosphere was toxic. Just like it turned here in 2016

 

[clint van damme]

I need to offer the other side to my story of course. I’ve had many great visits, and it truly is a wonderful Country, and, like you, met some wonderful people. They are there too.
i watched a lot of the debates on the Scottish referendum and was disappointed by the vitriol coming from a lot of the audiences. maybe they were infiltrated perhaps by the rabid anti English, which may explain why it appeared so weighted with anti English feelings.

but that seems to be the way all political debates are going now, both those debating and those watching, at least here and in the States unfortunately.

 

[TomRad85]

I used to support the other home nation teams when I was younger before I realised how much they hate us. I still don't hate them as that would be ridiculous but I certainly don't wish them well any more.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We should offer a hard exit. All support withdrawn currency vanished on day one and WTo terms and just let them get on

Sturgeon of course is hiding from it and when salmond starts his action will be finished anyway

Also withdraw all armed forces personnel and equipment

 

[clint van damme]

We should offer a hard exit. All support withdrawn currency vanished on day one and WTo terms and just let them get on

Sturgeon of course is hiding from it and when salmond starts his action will be finished anyway

I'm not really bothered either way to be honest. With the shower we have in Westminster at the moment I don't have time to worry about what's going on north of the border.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Clint I like you... But I hate to break the news to you that quite a few Scots just fucking hate us.... Many will vote for independence on that hatred alone

As with most things, just read a history book and you will get your answers.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I need to offer the other side to my story of course. I’ve had many great visits, and it truly is a wonderful Country, and, like you, met some wonderful people. They are there too.
i watched a lot of the debates on the Scottish referendum and was disappointed by the vitriol coming from a lot of the audiences. maybe they were infiltrated perhaps by the rabid anti English, which may explain why it appeared so weighted with anti English feelings.

I don’t think they hate “English people” in general, they hate the English establishment, there’s a big difference. They need to be independent anyway (if they want it), imagine being strapped to us at this point.

 

[Evo1883]

I don’t think they hate “English people” in general, they hate the English establishment, there’s a big difference. They need to be independent anyway (if they want it), imagine being strapped to us at this point.

To be fair, Britain is responsible for around 80% of Scottish trade revenue... Based on that alone... They need to be strapped to us surely?

They also need to take their share of the national debt, some British companies located in Scotland will come back to britain...trident jobs for example will relocate to a British coastal area

 

[Ring Of Steel]

To be fair, Britain is responsible for around 80% of Scottish revenue... Based on that alone... They need to be strapped to us surely?

I don’t know about that, but I do know you’re talking about sentiment that goes back centuries & will never go away, and the people that feel that way would put independence over everything, no price would be too great. Not saying it’s right, but it’s how it is. It’s hard for us to identify as we have never been in that situation. So I don’t think it’s about just despising all English people, it’s more the historical events that took place & the actions of the ‘establishment’, which can spill over

 

[Evo1883]

I don’t know about that, but I do know you’re talking about sentiment that goes back centuries & will never go away, and the people that feel that way would put independence over everything, no price would be too great. Not saying it’s right, but it’s how it is. It’s hard for us to identify as we have never been in that situation. So I don’t think it’s about just despising all English people, it’s more the historical events that took place & the actions of the ‘establishment’, which can spill over

The union was a voluntary agreement of nations... Scottish and English wars and skirmishes are no different to our problems with vikings etc... I don't buy that several hundreds of years later they hate us because we had a few ding dongs, it's nothing like the situation in Ireland for example.. Scotland are no victims of English oppression

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I don’t know about that, but I do know you’re talking about sentiment that goes back centuries & will never go away, and the people that feel that way would put independence over everything, no price would be too great. Not saying it’s right, but it’s how it is. It’s hard for us to identify as we have never been in that situation. So I don’t think it’s about just despising all English people, it’s more the historical events that took place & the actions of the ‘establishment’, which can spill over

It's just annoying that they focus on bits that have nothing to do with the Union that exists now and which was formed for very different reasons hundreds of years later.

 

[olderskyblue]

I don’t think they hate “English people” in general, they hate the English establishment, there’s a big difference. They need to be independent anyway (if they want it), imagine being strapped to us at this point.

That must be why blokes in pubs wanted to fight me then, because of the establishment...... the words “Ah fuckin hate the English” misled me...

 

[Houchens Head]

Personally, I don't give a hoot what the Jocks want to do regarding independence. They'll never get it anyway, so why are they banging on about it? Anyway, half of Scotland live in England. What will they do in a vote?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The union was a voluntary agreement of nations

Well... they had a failed investment, and were therefore pushed into it by their stronger neighbour... voluntarily.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The union was a voluntary agreement of nations... Scottish and English wars and skirmishes are no different to our problems with vikings etc... I don't buy that several hundreds of years later they hate us because we had a few ding dongs, it's nothing like the situation in Ireland for example.. Scotland are no victims of English oppression

‘voluntary’ you say???

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That must be why blokes in pubs wanted to fight me then, because of the establishment...... the words “Ah fuckin hate the English” misled me...

I don’t know why these individuals wanted to fight you. In general, no matter where you are if you don’t act a dick you won’t get any grief, same holds trues in Scotland, Ireland- anywhere really.

 

[Houchens Head]

Scottish Independence? It wouldn't work. No fucker even accepts their banknotes!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It's just annoying that they focus on bits that have nothing to do with the Union that exists now and which was formed for very different reasons hundreds of years later.

yeah that’s fair enough, was just saying- this is historic stuff, it’s not some random dislike of ‘normal’ English people.

 

[Evo1883]

Well... they had a failed investment, and were therefore pushed into it by their stronger neighbour... voluntarily.

‘voluntary’ you say???

In the late 1600s Scotlands elite were in favour of a union as the economy was shot... In 1699 talks were held between both countries.. Eventually The bill was passed and in 1707 the UK was formed with England paying off all of Scotland debts...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

tbf, and it's often the same in Wales, there is a lot of resentment of the English. I never knew there were so many Slovenia fans in Wales...

However, a lot of that is similar to here, really. I've got used to saying in both Scotland and Wales that I hate London, too. The deprived areas see their politics ignored, a lack of investment, and they see stories centred around London, with not even as much of a lack of understanding of their issues, but a lack of care - the establishment just isn't bothered what they think.

So they equate that with Englishness.

The best way to change that, is to start noticing them. For that matter, not dismissing the SNP as an irrelevant joke, too, but including them in decision making. The best way to reduce nationalist influence is to being them into the fold.

 

[Evo1883]

tbf, and it's often the same in Wales, there is a lot of resentment of the English. I never knew there were so many Slovenia fans in Wales...

However, a lot of that is similar to here, really. I've got used to saying in both Scotland and Wales that I hate London, too. The deprived areas see their politics ignored, a lack of investment, and they see stories centred around London, with not even as much of a lack of understanding of their issues, but a lack of care - the establishment just isn't bothered what they think.

So they equate that with Englishness.

The best way to change that, is to start noticing them. For that matter, not dismissing the SNP as an irrelevant joke, too, but including them in decision making. The best way to reduce nationalist influence is to being them into the fold.

With England being the largest, by quite some way in terms of population... I guess most things fall on us and its just easier to blame bad bad England

The problem with Scotland is when things are good its sturgeons brilliance and when things are bad it's Westminster.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

tbf, and it's often the same in Wales, there is a lot of resentment of the English. I never knew there were so many Slovenia fans in Wales...

However, a lot of that is similar to here, really. I've got used to saying in both Scotland and Wales that I hate London, too. The deprived areas see their politics ignored, a lack of investment, and they see stories centred around London, with not even as much of a lack of understanding of their issues, but a lack of care - the establishment just isn't bothered what they think.

So they equate that with Englishness.

The best way to change that, is to start noticing them. For that matter, not dismissing the SNP as an irrelevant joke, too, but including them in decision making. The best way to reduce nationalist influence is to being them into the fold.

to be honest I encountered more in Wales than Scotland or Ireland.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

With England being the largest, by quite some way in terms of population... I guess most things fall on us and its just easier to blame bad bad England

I’d be quite happy if both borders were dissolved and we stopped obsessing over lines on a map that were drawn long ago. Accept it’s never happening but we need to be making fewer countries not more

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’d be quite happy if both borders were dissolved and we stopped obsessing over lines on a map that were drawn long ago. Accept it’s never happening but we need to be making fewer countries not more

It's only relatively recently that most people thought of a nation, anyway.

You'd think of your village or town, not the country.

The idea of a 'nation' as we see it, is, as they say, an invented tradition.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's only relatively recently that most people thought of a nation, anyway.

You'd think of your village or town, not the country.

The idea of a 'nation' as we see it, is, as they say, an invented tradition.

I’m a hippie who doesn’t want any nation states at all but I’ll take what I can get.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I’d be quite happy if both borders were dissolved and we stopped obsessing over lines on a map that were drawn long ago. Accept it’s never happening but we need to be making fewer countries not more

yes yes yes

 

[Evo1883]

On a lighter note I've just seen it would take 225 million years to walk 1 light year... How mads that... As you were

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

yes yes yes

Dissolve England/Scotland/Wales into one and concentrate on the stuff that actually matters. Let NI decide its own fate