The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (87 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I will say, build build build will be happening in residential. The property industry is loving right now. It’s the big infrastructure stuff we won’t get.

 

---

[Evo1883]

We also need to change education at school level to reflect a modern society... No point kids learning about the Romans when they can be learning about economics and finances.we need a smarter future too

 

[wingy]

I shouldn't really use this as a comparison, but if any nation in history has ever shown what it takes to drag its nation back from nothing(granted with help) ... It's Germany.
The impossible really is possible, it needs the right direction of course, I'm not sure we have it either atm in the current administration(the direction)

Direction or competence.
Or maybe that's irrelevant and the quality needs to be at Civil service/technocrat level

 

[shmmeee]

We also need to change education at school level to reflect a modern society... No point kids learning about the Romans when they can be learning about economics and finances.

The problem overall is we have no Fucking clue what to do right now with the modern world. Brexiters are right in that respect, same as Corbynites are, though both are pushing pet causes they’ve had for decades, and centrists have no real sensible answers.

Therefore we have no real idea what we’re training kids for. Modern education is still Victorian, educationalists kinda know how where we need to be but changing the education system is the hardest and slowest moving task in government. You’re talking about a twenty year plus system. Change EYFS today and you won’t know the real impact until around 2050. Politics works on 5 year cycles, it’s just not set up to manage a system like that.

 

[skybluetony176]

This build build build I'm all for it.
The flagging commercial sector is looking ripe for adaption into apartments.
I do feel though there's scope with new technology to transform traditional techniques when it comes to domestic dwellings.
Less skill required in production, assembled on site by skilled technicians.
Expansion is badly needed but the elephant in the room is that part of the economy is hitched to property value and has acted like a dead weight on production forward 30-40yrs.

Your first point is absolutely bang on. The right wing media over the last week has been predicting ghost town commercial centres unless people stop working from home and get back to the office. Typical scaremongering. The answer is obvious. We have a housing shortage, convert empty office space into apartments.

Even a backwater like Rugby has witnessed just this. I took my car for an MOT earlier in the year, it’s first MOT so it’s been a while from the last time I MOT’d a car. I use a garage on Woodside Park in rugby for MOT’s and on the entrance to the industrial estate there is/was 3 office blocks. Always empty, to describe them even as half full would be an exaggeration and they’ve been like that from the day they were built. Took my car for an MOT and somebody in the last couple of years had the bright idea of converting them to apartments, all full.

 

[shmmeee]

Your first point is absolutely bang on. The right wing media over the last week has been predicting ghost town commercial centres unless people stop working from home and get back to the office. Typical scaremongering. The answer is obvious. We have a housing shortage, convert empty office space into apartments.

Even a backwater like Rugby has witnessed just this. I took my car for an MOT earlier in the year, it’s first MOT so it’s been a while from the last time I MOT’d a car. I use a garage on Woodside Park in rugby for MOT’s and on the entrance to the industrial estate there is/was 3 office blocks. Always empty, to describe them even as half full would be an exaggeration and they’ve been like that from the day they were built. Took my car for an MOT and somebody in the last couple of years had the bright idea of converting them to apartments, all full.

This is happening. Permitted Development rights are being massively expanded as of a few days ago I believe.

 

[skybluetony176]

This is happening. Permitted Development rights are being massively expanded as of a few days ago I believe.

Hold on. Does this mean the Tories have finally got something right? It’s not a U turn or something Nicola Sturgeon has done first?

 

[wingy]

I don't want to derail the thread but I put a post in the politics thread.
Would someone have a go at explaining what the implications are property/inheritance?
Over there of course.

 

[wingy]

I m not entirely bothered re commercial property.
Sovereign wealth funds. hard luck.
But I'd guess a fair bit of pension fund investment is likely in that sector and don't wish bad on up and coming retiree's .

 

[Seamus1]

You're an educated person, so what will you be judging the success of brexit on exactly? Are you going to be reasonable and see if the country is in a good shape in 10 years, or are you going to be unrealistic and expect brexit to be brilliant from the get go?

Like most things especially business, it's difficult at first right? Give the country time to find its own feet

Well, David Davis did clearly state that there would be no downsides and only upsides. Boris Johnson talked about having our cake and eating it, and of course Liam Fox did clearly state that a free trade deal with the EU will be the easiest deal in history.

 

[clint van damme]

It might not be EU membership but rather a series of trade deals and treaties held together with sellotape that do the same thing. A care worker visa here, a mini trade deal there. Eventually we’ll end up roughly back where we were. This stuff came about because all sides of the political spectrum want investment and jobs and business wants lack of red tape. Once the heat dies down that will carry on.

Problem is where are we by the time it happens?
I was speaking to someone senior in one of other plants the other day that does a lot of work for one.of the big Japanese car manufacturers and he's fearful they'll pull out of the UK.

Cracks me up when people go on about fishing when it contributes literally fuck all to the economy but they can be so Blair's about the effect on manufacturing.

 

[wingy]

We certainly need to hope for success or we'll never be allowed to retire Lol

 

[skybluetony176]

Following the end of the confidence and supply agreement with the DUP at the last GE I was getting concerned that the government wouldn’t hit its quota for homophobic, climate change denying freaks. Thankfully we’ve just dodged that bullet.

 

[wingy]

Following the end of the confidence and supply agreement with the DUP at the last GE I was getting concerned that the government wouldn’t hit its quota for homophobic, climate change denying freaks. Thankfully we’ve just dodged that bullet.

You forgot mysogenist?

 

[Sick Boy]

Can anyone genuinely say that Brexit will improve their day to day lives? It’s always been about deregulation and making the rich richer.

 

[shmmeee]

Problem is where are we by the time it happens?
I was speaking to someone senior in one of other plants the other day that does a lot of work for one.of the big Japanese car manufacturers and he's fearful they'll pull out of the UK.

Cracks me up when people go on about fishing when it contributes literally fuck all to the economy but they can be so Blair's about the effect on manufacturing.

If that an autocorrect that’s the best ever.

Yeah it will set us back in all likelihood, but what you gonna do. People have to be allowed to make mistakes.

 

[clint van damme]

If that an autocorrect that’s the best ever.

Yeah it will set us back in all likelihood, but what you gonna do. People have to be allowed to make mistakes.

HA! Yes. Even I wouldn't try and pin Brexit on Blair.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We also need to change education at school level to reflect a modern society... No point kids learning about the Romans when they can be learning about economics and finances.we need a smarter future too

While I agree overall about education in more life skills I'm not in favour of it at the expense of other subjects. Some people might really like history but maths isn't for them. So they become disillusioned with education because they're nothing that appeals to them. More variety to help kids realise what they enjoy/are good at.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

While I agree overall about education in more life skills I'm not in favour of it at the expense of other subjects. Some people might really like history but maths isn't for them. So they become disillusioned with education because they're nothing that appeals to them. More variety to help kids realise what they enjoy/are good at.

Historians have skills too!

 

[clint van damme]

Historians have skills too!

(yes, I know he's an archaeologist but it's near enough)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

(yes, I know he's an archaeologist but it's near enough)

 

[fernandopartridge]

We also need to change education at school level to reflect a modern society... No point kids learning about the Romans when they can be learning about economics and finances.we need a smarter future too

History is very important, if only the basic curriculum covered events like the world wars properly

 

[chiefdave]

When you've had nothing but bollocks of you lost, get over it, Brexit means Brexit, and we all know what we voted for... it's only natural to point out the idiocy.

There seems to be a lot of people that assume if you criticise anything related to Brexit, and lets face it there's a lot to criticise, you want Brexit to fail. I'd love it to be a huge success but it can only be judged on the evidence we have in front of us and everything is pointing to it being a complete disaster.

Are you going to be reasonable and see if the country is in a good shape in 10 years, or are you going to be unrealistic and expect brexit to be brilliant from the get go?

For me this is shifting the goalposts. During the leave campaign I heard no mention of having to wait decades to see an improvement but post-vote we have the likes of JRM talking about it taking 50 - 100 years to see the benefits!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

History is very important, if the basic curriculum covered events like the world wars properly

I think it's important for two main reasons.

1. it was the main thing that taught me to check sources and where info comes from. Don't just accept because something was written down it was accurate or even attempting to tell the truth.

2. With the right approach you can draw parallels to many current events and see that history does indeed repeat itself. We could learn how to prevent making a lot of mistakes we have if we were just willing to see the similarities with the past. Very few seems to be able to do that though.

The amount of parallels with pre-WWII with propaganda, populism, nationalism, blaming of minorities etc right now is frightening. But so few seem to be able to see it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There seems to be a lot of people that assume if you criticise anything related to Brexit, and lets face it there's a lot to criticise, you want Brexit to fail. I'd love it to be a huge success but it can only be judged on the evidence we have in front of us and everything is pointing to it being a complete disaster.

For me this is shifting the goalposts. During the leave campaign I heard no mention of having to wait decades to see an improvement but post-vote we have the likes of JRM talking about it taking 50 - 100 years to see the benefits!

I agree. Nowhere in the campaign was it mentioned it'd be a long haul with pain at the beginning. It was improvement from the get go. £350m pw for the NHS from day one.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think it's important for two main reasons.

1. it was the main thing that taught me to check sources and where info comes from. Don't just accept because something was written down it was accurate or even attempting to tell the truth.

2. With the right approach you can draw parallels to many current events and see that history does indeed repeat itself. We could learn how to prevent making a lot of mistakes we have if we we're just willing to see the similarities with the past. Very few seems to be able to do that though.

The amount of parallels with post-WWII with propaganda, populism, nationalism, blaming of minorities etc right now is frightening. But so few seem to be able to see it.

Critical skills, analysis, the ability to write a persuasive argument, looking at things in different ways, determining what are reliable sources, what are bollocks, and what they both say about society, how we can then use those lessons in the present day to implement strategies for wellbeing, social progression, community... Not so long ago that various industries such as finance and IT employed History and English graduates first out, because of their ability to look for innovative solutions and interrogate a problem properly.

It winds me up when people dismiss certain things, usually from a base of limited knowledge. It'd be like me suggesting plumbers are a waste of space because anybody can plug a ubend to a pipe.

 

[Grendel]

Historians have skills too!

David Starkey groupie alert

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

History is very important, if only the basic curriculum covered events like the world wars properly

Except it does and the Nazi rise to power has been a staple of GCSE History for years. At GCSE alone you get a lot of international and British history and at least in the schools I've worked in it's been an extremely popular subject. The Scottish curriculum by contrast is about wars against England at every stage and is much narrower.

I think it's important for two main reasons.

1. it was the main thing that taught me to check sources and where info comes from. Don't just accept because something was written down it was accurate or even attempting to tell the truth.

2. With the right approach you can draw parallels to many current events and see that history does indeed repeat itself. We could learn how to prevent making a lot of mistakes we have if we we're just willing to see the similarities with the past. Very few seems to be able to do that though.

The amount of parallels with post-WWII with propaganda, populism, nationalism, blaming of minorities etc right now is frightening. But so few seem to be able to see it.

I read a biography of Joseph Goebbels over the summer (fun reading I know) and the number of comments he made in his diary that rang true with the messaging of the current government was frightening. As an example he made a big effort to characterise the government's critics as 'whingers' and that they needed to 'be more positive'. When things started to turn against them he would seize on small tokenistic gestures people could make and blow it up into them being courageous. Just as Labour was criticised for 'being too negative' and eating at a restaurant was made out to be an act of nobility.

Perhaps the most ominous was from Goring:

' Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. '

Then look at what has happened with the US and its allies in the Middle East for decades now.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I think it's important for two main reasons.

1. it was the main thing that taught me to check sources and where info comes from. Don't just accept because something was written down it was accurate or even attempting to tell the truth.

2. With the right approach you can draw parallels to many current events and see that history does indeed repeat itself. We could learn how to prevent making a lot of mistakes we have if we we're just willing to see the similarities with the past. Very few seems to be able to do that though.

The amount of parallels with post-WWII with propaganda, populism, nationalism, blaming of minorities etc right now is frightening. But so few seem to be able to see it.

Checking the source. If only people cared for that. Seems to be the older generation that don't get the concept of that with the amount of shit I see posted on Facebook from people aged 50+. Can we put them back in school?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Except it does and the Nazi rise to power has been a staple of GCSE History for years. At GCSE alone you get a lot of international and British history and at least in the schools I've worked in it's been an extremely popular subject. The Scottish curriculum by contrast is about wars against England at every stage and is much narrower.



I read a biography of Joseph Goebbels over the summer (fun reading I know) and the number of comments he made in his diary that rang true with the messaging of the current government was frightening. As an example he made a big effort to characterise the government's critics as 'whingers' and that they needed to 'be more positive'. When things started to turn against them he would seize on small tokenistic gestures people could make and blow it up into them being courageous. Just as Labour was criticised for 'being too negative' and eating at a restaurant was made out to be an act of nobility.

Perhaps the most ominous was from Goring:



Then look at what has happened with the US and its allies in the Middle East for decades now.

Fair enough Brighton, it didn't whilst I was at school.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Both world wars, Tudor England and Spanish Armada, history of medicine back in my day. All things to instill pride in this country, for even the most lefty of children

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Fair enough Brighton, it didn't whilst I was at school.

Sorry for going a bit over FP.

 

[shmmeee]

Critical skills, analysis, the ability to write a persuasive argument, looking at things in different ways, determining what are reliable sources, what are bollocks, and what they both say about society, how we can then use those lessons in the present day to implement strategies for wellbeing, social progression, community... Not so long ago that various industries such as finance and IT employed History and English graduates first out, because of their ability to look for innovative solutions and interrogate a problem properly.

It winds me up when people dismiss certain things, usually from a base of limited knowledge. It'd be like me suggesting plumbers are a waste of space because anybody can plug a ubend to a pipe.

Fact is though to a lot of kids it’s just boring memorisation of dates. Same in Computimg which if taught well teaches information literacy, but that’s not the main focus.

A wider critical thinking subject that have teachers freedom to tailor the subject matter to their students interests, and isn’t constantly interferes with by politicians insisting we all learn about X, would be good.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Fact is though to a lot of kids it’s just boring memorisation of dates. Same in Computimg which if taught well teaches information literacy, but that’s not the main focus.

A wider critical thinking subject that have teachers freedom to tailor the subject matter to their students interests, and isn’t constantly interferes with by politicians insisting we all learn about X, would be good.

But that's an issue with the teaching approaches, rather than the subjects. There's a lot of inverted snobbery about certain subjects, and it usually stems from a lack of understanding.

 

[Grendel]

But that's an issue with the teaching approaches, rather than the subjects. There's a lot of inverted snobbery about certain subjects, and it usually stems from a lack of understanding.

I must admit I enjoyed it but we did have an exceptional A level teacher looking back. It does give you an ability to assimilate data and form evidence based opinions. I actually think it made a difference to me as it teaches you how to construct arguments and negotiate your points which are pretty important in a commercial environment