Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (90 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

320 k tests per day hmmm.

According to the government's own figures we've had capacity for over 320K tests a day every day since 21st July. In that time there's only been 3 days where we've done over 200K tests. Yet we're told people can't get tests and are being made to travel for hours. Something doesn't add up once again.

 

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[Grendel]

Personally I'm not confident that our government have a better plan lined up than Germany, Spain, France, Ireland etc all of whom have extended their equivalent schemes.

I doubt they have a plan either other than delay and hope. Also I doubt you'd be that thrilled certainly on the German scheme and the Spain scheme really is not great at all.

You cannot allow big companies to be on the scheme. Its an abuse and its easy for them to take the option and wait and see what happens

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They were discussing exactly that on Radio 4 recently and they seemed to agree that if it was implemented properly those issues could be avoided. Spoke about things like rent controls which they said would be very easy to implement as every property already has a council tax band which could be used, things like that.

Of course if implemented properly is a big if, recent track record would not leave me confident.

They also discussed the huge number of what they called non-jobs we have. Pointed out that despite millions of people being on furlough and SEISS (around 6.6m when this was on), plus those already made redundant with the exception of the leisure sector pretty much everything you need is still available to you.

Its an ideal time for a rethink but doubt that will happen.

That's the big IF.

We've had years of 'we're going to crackdown on landlords/letting. Nothing ever happens. Also refers to house prices as well. If you've got £x income every year then you have £x income + UBI it's almost inevitable that in a market where demand outstrips supply more and more of that UBI is going to have to be used to not be outbid.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The inflationary argument was used against the minimum wage and was bollocks then.

Different situation as only those poorest paid benefited from it. They were still cash strapped in the grand scheme of things and most people it had no effect on their earnings and thus had no extra money to spend.

UBI is for everyone, so every sector of society suddenly gets an extra £10-12k a year. That's everyone in the marketplace having more money to spend and inevitably capitalism and greed will see people and businesses trying to take as much of that as possible, esp in areas that sellers have power due to demand outstripping supply.

 

[skybluetony176]

According to the government's own figures we've had capacity for over 320K tests a day every day since 21st July. In that time there's only been 3 days where we've done over 200K tests. Yet we're told people can't get tests and are being made to travel for hours. Something doesn't add up once again.

Been using the Pritti Patel calculator again. Imagine if Diane Abbott...

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I might do a bit of fraud. I guess as long as I do it in a very specific and limited way they'd be fine with that.

It's totally unacceptable and what's more I think shows the opinion of those in government that they think Britain is far more influential in the world than it really is, as if the think it's still the age of Empire and we can do what we like and everyone in the world will just accept it.

It's a dangerous precendent and encourages anarchy. How can it be expected for people to follow the law if those that govern won't?

Not even like it's the first time they've willing broken the law - remember proroguing?

 

[shmmeee]

The inflationary argument was used against the minimum wage and was bollocks then.

It’s poor economics. People won’t buy twice as much food or twice as many clothes. We’re talking about people who can’t meet their basic needs right now. It’ll only expand the market and therefore just as likely to reduce prices as increase them. If some people have excess wealth: tax them.

 

[wingy]

Instant Tests.
Just been talking about that at the barber's.

 

[ajsccfc]

We think, we believe, we hope, that we'll have these tests that take 90, take 20 minutes

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We think, we believe, we hope, that we'll have these tests that take 90, take 20 minutes

I just heard that and laughed out loud

 

[fernandopartridge]

 

[Saddlebrains]

This got me.

The well known phrase of a ' block of time'.

Up there with 'just a mo' and 'in a jiffy'

 

[skybluetony176]

So is the long and short of it Boris waffled without actually saying anything and has left the country more confused than it was before his address to the nation.

 

[chiefdave]

I doubt they have a plan either other than delay and hope. Also I doubt you'd be that thrilled certainly on the German scheme and the Spain scheme really is not great at all.

You cannot allow big companies to be on the scheme. Its an abuse and its easy for them to take the option and wait and see what happens

Not sure what solution there is other than delay and hope.

Of course it would be preferable to get 100% of salary or the current 80% rather than the 60% in Germany or 70% in Spain. Having said that I would be more than happy with 60% if the scheme here was extended. That's enough to cover my mortgage, bills and leave enough for food. Anything past that I can frankly do without.

It would remove a huge amount of stress to know something like that was in the pipeline. At the moment if I'm not back in work by the time furlough ends I won't be able to afford to pay either my mortgage or bills let alone both of them. I'm sure there's many others in similar situations out of the millions furloughed. What happens when millions of people can't afford the basics and start losing their homes, can't imagine that will be a positive impact on the economy.

You're entirely right about companies abusing the scheme. Got a friend who works for a company owned by a billionaire. Everyone low paid in the company is furloughed. Know a couple of people who work for a company owned by someone worth over £500m who took a £50m dividend last year alone, again low paid staff have been furlough while the business continues to operate. In my own company there's 4 of us in the same department / role. Only 1 is still working, the rest on furlough. He is struggling to cope and in his own words 'on the verge of a breakdown'. I've been called in on 3 occasions to do a single day (site visit required which nobody else was prepared to do), every time I've had our customers complaining about how they can never get hold of anyone, how it takes days to get a response etc. At the same time there's not a single manager or director in the company who is on furlough.

 

[wingy]

So finally the question of shielding parents hit him head on .
Schools responsibility .

 

[chiefdave]

So is the long and short of it Boris waffled without actually saying anything and has left the country more confused than it was before his address to the nation.

Seemed to be Whitty saying its a long haul and next spring might be the point we start coming out of it. Talking about the possibility of further restrictions such as closing school. Followed by Johnson saying everything will be OK by Xmas!

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

So is the long and short of it Boris waffled without actually saying anything and has left the country more confused than it was before his address to the nation.

He never answered Keir Starmer today at question time regarding test and trace but simply set about shouting around the house . It was cringeworthy.
I've got to say that Starmer seems the best labour leader for absolutely ages, but then again that's not difficult.

 

[Ian1779]

So is the long and short of it Boris waffled without actually saying anything and has left the country more confused than it was before his address to the nation.

Not that confusing. I know exactly that he doesn’t give a fuck about the spread of the virus in schools.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not that confusing. I know exactly that he doesn’t give a fuck about the spread of the virus in schools.

Maybe then they can just let us teach normally and stop pretending that it can be contained

 

[chiefdave]

So we're going to try and bumble through until the spring when hopefully the "moonshot test" means everyone in the country can test themselves whenever they want to leave the house and know if they're safe to leave or not.

That test doesn't currently exist though does it so its got to be developed then produced & distributed in huge numbers. Would also be issues with enforcing it. Is it going to be the same as facemasks and if you say you're fine to be out and about nobody challenges it? Hope they can develop the required tests and put a decent system in place around it as it sounds like thats our only option of any semblance of normality before a vaccine is available.

Very worrying to hear that we're basically in a holding pattern of restrictions until the spring yet once again there was insistence that furlough won't be extended.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Are they still encouraging people to go back to the office?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So we're going to try and bumble through until the spring when hopefully the "moonshot test" means everyone in the country can test themselves whenever they want to leave the house and know if they're safe to leave or not.

That test doesn't currently exist though does it so its got to be developed then produced & distributed in huge numbers. Would also be issues with enforcing it. Is it going to be the same as facemasks and if you say you're fine to be out and about nobody challenges it? Hope they can develop the required tests and put a decent system in place around it as it sounds like thats our only option of any semblance of normality before a vaccine is available.

Very worrying to hear that we're basically in a holding pattern of restrictions until the spring yet once again there was insistence that furlough won't be extended.

It would also need measures in place to stop people just borrowing someone else's to go out-more nonsense that hasn't been thought through

 

[clint van damme]

Are they still encouraging people to go back to the office?

Only if they catch an odd numbered bus to work or drive a car with vowel in the registration. They don't want to complicated matters.

 

[Grendel]

As long as we can ditch workers rights regarding redundancy this would be a real help

 

[Grendel]

Are they still encouraging people to go back to the office?

Hopefully yes

 

[skybluetony176]

Imagine if Diane Abbott...

Matt Hancock gets test and trace figures wrong again - Full Fact

Incorrect - it is 69.4%.

fullfact.org

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No shit Sherlock. Must be a communist state

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Hopefully yes

Yes they are although they’ve closed mine

 

[Grendel]

No shit Sherlock. Must be a communist state

Well more like a fascist one if they abandon workers rights.

 

[shmmeee]

As long as we can ditch workers rights regarding redundancy this would be a real help

That’s got to be the UBI tradeoff. Reduced employment/pay law and benefit spend. Something for everyone!

 

[Flying Fokker]

Please bring this on.

 

[Grendel]

That’s got to be the UBI tradeoff. Reduced employment/pay law and benefit spend. Something for everyone!

It’s not though is it? If you are a manual labourer with a long service in a company you’d be entitled to £16,000 plus 12 weeks pay tax free - companies would love it - ditch old people and get the state to pick up the tab

 

[chiefdave]

As long as we can ditch workers rights regarding redundancy this would be a real help

Bound to be some trade offs. Not like we're getting anything in return at the moment when workers rights are eroded .

What did you have in mind? Doesn't seem that difficult to make people redundant at present.

 

[Grendel]

Bound to be some trade offs. Not like we're getting anything in return at the moment when workers rights are eroded .

What did you have in mind? Doesn't seem that difficult to make people redundant at present.

It’s not difficult but it’s costly and workers have significant rights if they have been employed for a considerable time. What have actually been eroded in terms of rights on redundancy?

It’s a pie in the sky argument

 

[skybluetony176]

I see numb nuts is still saying back to normal by Xmas. Full Trump now.