clint van damme
Well-Known Member
did you get their autographs?
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (101 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
- Start date
did you get their autographs?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
maybe they can bung Orient the 100k they're missing out on for the privilege of going through without lifting a finger?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
No additional household indoors meeting limits?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Not sure who that data is compiled or analysed, Track and trace doesn't work. Someone in a pub could spread it around but everyone is asymptomatic, takes it away and spreads it into a care home/workplace where someone shows symptoms and that would be classified as where the outbreak came from. I can understand how it could spread quickly and easily within a care home but how did it get in there in the first place? Has to be people from outside that environment bringing it in.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Just how idiotic is this man?
Pupils sent home due to positive tests. Get older generation more vulnerable to severe consequences of the disease to look after them.
Next proposals - zookeepers to be smeared with meat before entering the lion enclosure and beekeepers to be covered in honey.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
ok skippy
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But it shows just how short-sighted and unable to see future consequences they are, or at least how much they're willing to ignore them because the economy is more important to them than the citizens. Spent weeks pretty much demanding return to offices, now it's back to WFH where possible. It was never necessary for those able to WFH to go back to the office and take the risk in the first place.
Fact is they see the average man as little more than an expendable drone there to help line the pockets of them and their mates.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Surely there needs to be an extension to the furlough scheme now. The measures are needed but it's going to be tough going for lots of people.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But they aren't the ones likely to be flouting the rules and causing the spread in the first place.
Say someone responsible was in a pub and later finds out they test positive, report it and they were able to track people from the places they'd visited and thus where those people had been etc. But how would they trace the likes of Mr Hugh Jarse or Betty Swallocks? And how knows where else those people will have been potentially spreading it around as if they're willing to not provide proper details it's unlikely the give much of a shit about other measures like distancing, masks, hand sanitation etc.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Most pubs are taking peoples names on the doors now, people aren't in any numbers giving cartoon names to bouncers on doors.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
It could be they look at the type of damage caused/symptoms and recognise it as being irreparable. I agree with the liver that must be harder to know given it's regenerative abilities, but even if over time a person can alleviate the issues it's quite common for the actual damage to remain to a large extent. You can do exercise etc to improve your aerobic capacity to help but If the lungs are scarred they'll always be scarred.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So just have more police presence at that time
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I get that they have to act on the latest advice but its not like these things weren't being pointed out at the time. When they told everyone to go to the pub and started dishing out vouchers for cheap meals out everyone could see what the result would be but that was ignored. Same with back to the office, 'save pret' became a phrase to mock the government, again everyone could see what was happening but they were ignored.
We locked down too slowly and tentatively to start off with, then we opened back up too soon. I'm not convinced we're not leaving it too late again. All summer it was the story that to open schools and unis something else would have to go. Yet we've opened everything up. Time will tell what impact having thousands of uni students moving round the county to return to their studies, living together in student accommodation and, as we can all see on social media, out partying.
Today seems like a warning shot. Once again shifting the responsibility onto the individual to 'do the right thing'. Not sure how effective that will be when a good chunk of the country seems to think its a hoax and another big chunk are totally confused as to what they can and can't do. Given they've spent days telling us transmission in private homes is the biggest issue not sure why they've chosen to close the pubs earlier while making no changes to how many people you can have in your home.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
What are the limited numbers of officers available going to do?
"oh please don't walk within 2m of someone"
Not an answer
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Yep, Johnson confirms the 10pm closing time is due to cases having higher transmission rates when people are drunker thus not understanding it is likely to just have drunker people earlier in the night.
Also you can push more people in to a small area at the weekend because if people go out earlier at say 4pm or 5pm you will have drinkers mingling more with shoppers in city centres.
Also you can push more people in to a small area at the weekend because if people go out earlier at say 4pm or 5pm you will have drinkers mingling more with shoppers in city centres.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
If the vaccine makes it so that there is less likelihood of a severe reaction, esp in the vulnerable then that would be a step forward and you'd assume they'd be the first on the list to be given it. The ability of this vaccine should, IMO, be heavily weighted towards it's ability to protect those most vulnerable and likely to suffer serious harm/death but how many of the trial people will be those who're vulnerable? I don't know how they're trialling it - is it on people confirmed as having Covid, those who haven't or just random samples?
But in a wider sense what it'd do is allow the disease to spread more undetected as even less people will show signs and thus continue their daily routine and come into contact with people.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Something needs to be put in place. According to the ONS in April 2019 (the most recent figure available) the average employee was earning £30,415. What is the impact on the economy going to be if we suddenly dump millions of people onto a maximum of £4,919 a year under universal credit when furlough ends?
Seems the average mortgage payment is about £670 a month, people wouldn't even be able to cover that. Is there no impact on the economy if huge numbers of people can't pay their mortgages and lose their homes? Where are they all going to live? Finding somewhere to rent is hard enough when you have a job, unemployed and unable to pass a credit check I can imagine it being near impossible.
A lot of talk of economic impact but we need to look after individuals as well as big businesses.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Aye...just around the corner in Concert Square.
You been the Alma then? Samba saturday or the sunday service?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
We're now back up to L4 yet when that scale was brought in and what measures would and wouldn't be allowed at each stage none of it is being followed. Pubs and restaurants were initially not supposed to be opened until L1 yet were opened at L2. Now we're level 4 and they're still not being shut, just having to close an hour earlier. What good is that going to do? Do we have inside info the virus are like Gremlins and are much worse after a particular time?
They set out advice then just ignore it or move the goalposts if it suits them.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They can't get testing or tracing organised and the stats they release have had their methodology changed numerous times to 'correct' them yet we're supposed to believe they have evidence people are catching it after 10pm in pubs. Struggling to believe that tbh.
What do they think is happening after 10pm that won't now happen earlier?
Spot on. I don’t think there can be any reliable data on actual transmission, although maybe reasonable guesstimates. All they can say is due to close proximity it’s riskier in some locations that others. For example even if there was an outbreak at work an infected individual might have caught it from an asymptomatic person on the bus on the way in or around someones house, at home, at the shop etc etc ?! Who knows for sure.
As I say you and others have hit the nail on the head but mentioning one of the biggest challenges here...the large proportion of asymptomatic cases. It’s a fucking nightmare !
Ps I’m saying all this as someone who wants the pubs/bars to stay open. Ideally for as long as possible but I’m also realistic. James O’Brien (who I’m not a fan of) was debating this earlier and I found myself agreeing with everything he was saying ie looking at the bigger picture the curfews are worth a go as neither the extremes of: back to a pre Covid free for all or total closure/lockdown which will cause huge jobs losses, mental health issues etc etc are palatable. So it’s got to be something inbetween, of which there are loads of options.
This is about reducing the risk of contagion in certain settings not eliminating it. Same as household mixing restrictions.
The arguments of ‘well everyone will just pile round someone’s house’ might be true but they’ll be breaking the law. That’s like saying there’s no point in a full lockdown removing household mixing because everyone will do it anyway. They might do but you hope they wouldn’t.
Only time will tell but i wouldn’t be surprised if further measures/restrictions are implemented in the coming weeks. I really do hope not though.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
"Testing and tracing has very little or nothing to do with the spread or transmission of the disease."
A quote from Boris in the HoC today, just shows he's given up an the truth,
A quote from Boris in the HoC today, just shows he's given up an the truth,
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It’s the single biggest action we can take to test isolate and trace. What on Earth did he mean?
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
He was being questioned on the poor performance of the lighthouse labs in wales by a Welsh labour MP. He probably just made up some waffle to deflect the question.
But it is a shocking thing to say.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
He also came out with this corker when asked why the death rate was higher here than in other countries, "It's very difficult to ask the British population uniformly to obey guidelines in the way that is necessary”. Not to mention, "There is nothing more frustrating for the vast majority who do comply – the law-abiding majority – than the sight of a few brazenly defying the rules.".
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Been a couple of times but not for about 10 years tbh, went for tapas once with some work colleagues and another time with the missus. Nice place. I've not actually been out for a drink in Liverpool for a good few years now, used to go with a few mates and tour some of the old boozers in town. Great city.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Like Cummings and his dad for example?
Once again denying blame and pushing it back onto the public.
Pretty much the entire scientific community says tracking and tracing is the most important thing but blaming it for being poor would look bad on his mates who he's given the contracts to, not to mention him and his govt, but that wouldn't be on, so better to just ignore every bit of advice and just call it unimportant instead.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Test trace and isolate
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
"Test, trace and Isolate (unless the PM is floundering in Parliament)"
I think everybody agrees on the impact of going from around £30000 to £5000 per year per head for a large section of the population.
It's more about how the monies used to support people are distributed. Too many were left out of the furlough so it had a really differential impact. Not the fault of people on furlough of course, but has become clearer over time that an alternative way to provide income support to those who cannot do their jobs at this time should be support.
Personally I'd be in favour of a Basic Income, or an extension to furlough for those jobs that cannot physically be done from home and the creation of new jobs with government backing. Easier said than done of course, and I wouldn't know which sectors will have jobs in the future, but it seems a preferable alternative to leaving so many behind.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Or we could shut them all up again and only open schools on a ‘normal’ basis.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Different argument though isn't it. The conversation was about the caused by closing all pubs and bars at 10pm not should pubs remain open.