EBITDA is only part of the valuation but a starting point The smaller business tends to have special nuances and it is the "profit" figure that requires tweaking
Wasps downward spiral... (63 Viewers)
- Thread starter CCFC54321
- Start date
EBITDA is only part of the valuation but a starting point The smaller business tends to have special nuances and it is the "profit" figure that requires tweaking
duffer
Well-Known Member
The bond price is a pretty good indication of whether the bond holders see it as a good thing.
Personally, I can’t see any way that a company that’s already massively leveraged taking on more debt is a good thing, but maybe that’s just me.
I’m also struggling to see how a stadium and exhibition centre somehow maintains its current valuation when there’s no market for public events, and the primary tenant is struggling to meet the terms of its other financial commitments.
In short then:
Wasps Bonds: Sell
Smoke & Mirrors; Buy
Personally, I can’t see any way that a company that’s already massively leveraged taking on more debt is a good thing, but maybe that’s just me.
I’m also struggling to see how a stadium and exhibition centre somehow maintains its current valuation when there’s no market for public events, and the primary tenant is struggling to meet the terms of its other financial commitments.
In short then:
Wasps Bonds: Sell
Smoke & Mirrors; Buy
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I was speaking to a sporting industry expert the other day who said that the IOC are bailing out a number of global sporting governing bodies. Whilst those are global governing bodies, there doesn't appear to be much appetite for the UK govt to bail out professional sport in the UK.
I therefore cannot see them bailing out Rugby Union as they would then have to look at the EFL, the ECB etc as well.
Peter Billing
Well-Known Member
Yes and they're not likely to do that if those sports don't have their house in order. As we saw with several airlines the government were not making handouts on demand but expected them to explore every other avenue of possible financing first.
jordan210
Well-Known Member
Survey shows Henley residents still against Wasps training ground plan
Wasps Rugby Club’s plans to redevelop Henley Sports Centre as its new training ground, continue to face considerable local opposition according to the…
I do love the wasps forum.
"600 replies from 15000 residents isn't what I would call representative. That's only 4%, or just 3% of residents voiced opposition. It's about time the council just got on with it. Highly likely they will REJECT, then we can appeal and so on. I would hope this if it gets rejected, Wasps renegotiate the price in view of Covid"
"The reality is that most of the vocal dissenters are angry CCFC supporters who live outside of the area.
The College sold the facility because it was losing money - it was a no brainer."
There is only 2400 residents in Henley in Arden. 15000 is Henley on thamesSurvey shows Henley residents still against Wasps training ground plan
Wasps Rugby Club’s plans to redevelop Henley Sports Centre as its new training ground, continue to face considerable local opposition according to the…www.stratford-herald.com
I do love the wasps forum.
"600 replies from 15000 residents isn't what I would call representative. That's only 4%, or just 3% of residents voiced opposition. It's about time the council just got on with it. Highly likely they will REJECT, then we can appeal and so on. I would hope this if it gets rejected, Wasps renegotiate the price in view of Covid"
"The reality is that most of the vocal dissenters are angry CCFC supporters who live outside of the area.
The College sold the facility because it was losing money - it was a no brainer."
Nick
Administrator
Survey shows Henley residents still against Wasps training ground plan
Wasps Rugby Club’s plans to redevelop Henley Sports Centre as its new training ground, continue to face considerable local opposition according to the…
I do love the wasps forum.
"600 replies from 15000 residents isn't what I would call representative. That's only 4%, or just 3% of residents voiced opposition. It's about time the council just got on with it. Highly likely they will REJECT, then we can appeal and so on. I would hope this if it gets rejected, Wasps renegotiate the price in view of Covid"
"The reality is that most of the vocal dissenters are angry CCFC supporters who live outside of the area.
The College sold the facility because it was losing money - it was a no brainer."
Haven't they bought the land yet then? How can they renegotiate the price in view of COVID? ha
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Shows the intelligence of the general egg chaser.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The objections on the planning portal have people's addresses on them which shows they are locals. The survey they've referring to was only open to locals. They really are clueless.
There's an objection from Sport England as well, are they angry CCFC supporters?
Pretty sure they have as didn't they shut everything down and then claim they should be allowed to use it as a training centre as nobody else was using it?
Kneeza
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Some of the Wasps fans are banging on about it being unused and just rotting. I am pretty sure people were using it when they could.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Which was exactly what the Henley Group flagged up on day one. They'd close it and then claim it was out of use.
Nick
Administrator
Move some gypsys in next to make a point.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I doubt it - I think he’s confusing the overall loan of £18m - wasps lost £17m in the latest accounts it seems
jordan210
Well-Known Member
Will be interesting to see as to date DR put 16m in. I cant see enrode sending a notification for something in old accounts.
unless he has added say 2million with a new interest rate.
I guess we need someone to see the new information
Last edited:
| :16 | dandigirl: Well, we will not be voting in favour of these proposals which are a big dilution of bondholders security. There is only one element that we can support being (a) (iii) - early redemption at par. IMV these bonds should be redeemed and there should be a new issue incorporating any changes WASPS wish to bring in. They should not be foisted on existing holders. There are only downsides here for current holders. If that brings about early liquidation, better sooner rather than later when bondholders would have weakened their current position. Don't just accede to these proposals for they are not what they seem. Let Richardson arrange redemption and then he can do what he likes. |
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Anybody know when the bond holders have to make their decision by and if the split will be publicised?
Investegate |Wasps Finance PLC Announcements | Wasps Finance PLC: LAUNCH OF CONSENT SOLICITATION
Investegate announcements from Wasps Finance PLC, LAUNCH OF CONSENT SOLICITATION
www.investegate.co.uk
Timetable is here near end
Voting by 27th Meeting and result 29th
jordan210
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link to those G?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
They’re a bunch of nasty scumbags, genuinely would be happy to see them go out business and the club return to its rightful home for their real fans.Survey shows Henley residents still against Wasps training ground plan
Wasps Rugby Club’s plans to redevelop Henley Sports Centre as its new training ground, continue to face considerable local opposition according to the…
I do love the wasps forum.
"600 replies from 15000 residents isn't what I would call representative. That's only 4%, or just 3% of residents voiced opposition. It's about time the council just got on with it. Highly likely they will REJECT, then we can appeal and so on. I would hope this if it gets rejected, Wasps renegotiate the price in view of Covid"
"The reality is that most of the vocal dissenters are angry CCFC supporters who live outside of the area.
The College sold the facility because it was losing money - it was a no brainer."
jordan210
Well-Known Member
The 18m loan is shown in the last sets of account
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s in the telegraph but actually is discussed here
DrunkenWasps.com - Wasps financials / Bonds
DrunkenWasps.com discussion board : Unofficial Wasps news and views
m.rugbynetwork.net
Grendel
Well-Known Member
An additional £18m?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yeah they are the loans carried over
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Don’t know how I missed those, ta
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
They are having their game on in the hospitality lounges at the Ricoh today.
The game is being played at the Ricoh....
Regulations state that the game should not be watched. (Eg through the windows)....
Bet they do.....
Wonder if anybody might make a complaint.....
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It’s pretty grim and shows the claim that Vaughan makes they were having a good year before COVID to be rather unlikely
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Should make the 20-21 accounts a good read then
jordan210
Well-Known Member
I dont think the additional one will even show in the next accounts. due to timings. if there was one of 16m will be in accounts next year.
I guess we need to see what the notification from endole was to see if something new
Grendel
Well-Known Member
When you look at the accounts the real problem has always been the Rugby side of the business. Pretty much all the losses are attributed the them.
The entertainment side isn’t exactly great but it probably just about breaks even. The irony is Richardson would be better off selling the rugby club and making it a tenant along with the football club
The entertainment side isn’t exactly great but it probably just about breaks even. The irony is Richardson would be better off selling the rugby club and making it a tenant along with the football club
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Couldn’t imagine many takers in such a scenario
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
The only way it could possibly work is if he wrote off all his debt then paid off the bond holders himself for the arena.
The thing has been a shit show from the start of its build and will only ever potentially work without a mountain of debt around it but nobody has ever managed to make it work.