Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Just seen on twitter there has been a second incident in Avignon.
Man beheaded in Paris (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter clint van damme
- Start date
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Attacker shot dead before he hurt anyone I think
You could drop
I doubt that will work.
We could stop letting people who show serious signs of Islamic cultish behaviour wander the streets under observation (whatever that is)
We could monitor continuously anyone who has arrived in the country with no documentation until satisfied they pose no threat
We could offer anyone convicted of these crimes or plotting such atrocities to the Afghan or Pakistani Taliban, let them live the dream
I mean we have allowed these people to get to this stage ( beheading on streets of Europe) with barely a whimper so maybe time to think outside the box
I doubt that will work.
We could stop letting people who show serious signs of Islamic cultish behaviour wander the streets under observation (whatever that is)
We could monitor continuously anyone who has arrived in the country with no documentation until satisfied they pose no threat
We could offer anyone convicted of these crimes or plotting such atrocities to the Afghan or Pakistani Taliban, let them live the dream
I mean we have allowed these people to get to this stage ( beheading on streets of Europe) with barely a whimper so maybe time to think outside the box
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Some of those things the issue is funding. How do you continuously monitor every single person without documentation. And how does that stop the homegrown ones or those that enter legally? Or the ones that have no previous info suggesting radicalisation? They probably foil a lot more than people realise and these are the few that slip the net.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think this guy was stupid enough to try and take the Gendarmerie with a knife. Never going to end well.
Oh without doubt, just a brain dump really but like I say it isn’t working now. Issue with this is it’s a creeping thing which gradually people just come to accept as part of life. Imagine the level of attacks we have had in last few years 20 years ago, but now it’s a bit of outrage, a quiet reminder not to offend anyone and we go again.
If the government can’t get a hold of it then plenty of nutters from all angles will be happy to fill the void and god knows what things look like in another 10-15 years
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The numbers dead from terror attacks in the UK is historically low, it's just the attacks themselves are often random on individuals.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
LSD in the water supply.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
France attack: Three killed in 'Islamist terrorist' stabbings
President Macron says France will not give up its values after the attack at the Notre-Dame basilica.
www.bbc.co.uk
Two elderly victims praying inside the church. What a coward. Where’s the honour in that?
Utterly ashamed of our human race
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
France attack: Three killed in 'Islamist terrorist' stabbings
President Macron says France will not give up its values after the attack at the Notre-Dame basilica.www.bbc.co.uk
Two elderly victims praying inside the church. What a coward. Where’s the honour in that?
Utterly ashamed of our human race
it's the act of a scumbag Pete, as bad as the world seems they are still, fortunately in a minority, there are still a lot of good people in the world.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
bezzer
Well-Known Member
But it's not just online radicalisation is it? When you have Erdogan and now Imran Khan stirring things up, what the hell can you do?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
They're from the same populist, anti-fact anti-expert school as Johnson, Putin and Trump.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
With what man power?
Same as with the other major terrorist threat, right wing extremism, it’s very hard to find the line between standard lonely male internet nutter who will never get beyond the lower sections of Twitter comments, and those that will turn to violence.
Where’s the line between The Lurker and Tommy Mair? Where’s the line between the devoutly religious teenager and the one that picks up a knife?
So we have to monitor everyone, or bring about some restrictions on freedom that frankly most people won’t accept when they realise it doesn’t just apply to brown people.
You seem to think we can just move the line ok terrorism suspects and pick up the thousands of people that would catch with no repercussions.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
And to all the do-gooders who say it's wrong to try and protect the democracy of our country I hope you never have a son, daughter, parent or grandparent blown to bits in a shopping centre.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I just feel sick at that. It’s such a provocation. France is pretty secular and always has been. Fundamentalist Muslims targeting Christians is crazy but so is all of this kind of thing. Nice guy shut all places of worship and the army are protecting churches. It’s madness
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Protect your democracy by ripping up due process. Good one. I hope you never have a son, daughter, parent or grandparent left to rot by an authoritarian government given absolute power by people scared of something less likely than a lottery win.
Fucks sake. We’re a robust democracy not some simpering little shit that needs to bend over backwards over a few loons blowing themselves to bits.
These are shark attacks: very graphic and very scary but very very infrequent.
I know you aren’t one, but many with this view will happily let thousands die from the virus to keep their liberty, but want to rewrite everything that makes us a liberal democracy after a relative handful get attacked.
We survived the IRA, we’ll survive this.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Oh well, that's okay then. Let it continue. As long as it's not a member of your family.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
that's not what he said. No one wants it to continue.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
So you're advocating we roll over and let this happen as something of an inconvenience. Lets not stand up for democracy like the French do, otherwise you and I might end up in little pieces in Broadgate on a Saturday afternoon.
We survived the IRA, and WWII. How did we do that ?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Let what happen? 5 terrorist deaths in the last 3 years in the UK? We've already got a very very heavy surveillance state with serious anti terrorist laws that encroach on everybody's civil liberties. It's very rare that a terrorist isn't on a watch list of some sort. What are you suggesting?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
What about the Manchester bombing?
Oh yes, that just escaped your cut off date.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The point is there is no trend to suggest that it's a growing problem. Let's take 2017 into account too if you like, over the last 10 years 60 people have been killed in terror attacks of which 42 were in 2017.
I know from your comments on the corona thread that significant chunks of the population don't really matter and I bet some of the 60 were old or had underlying health problems. I mean, it hardly sounds like an issue at all.
On a serious note, the terror problem facing the UK at the minute is nothing compared to that of the IRA over 30 years. Not even close in terms of number of attacks, targets for attacks and numbers killed. Have a look at the numbers yourself.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
When people say militant Islam, which really is just trying to deny the wider problem... All they are doing is trying to make people think the problem is smaller than it actually is..
There are without doubt hundreds of millions of radical Muslims around the world... There are still 12 or 13 countries where you can be killed for being homosexual... There are many countries that treat people like shit or second rate for having a vagina and its all under the guide of their religious beliefs.
Liberal values are supposedly about equality, freedom and expression without consequence,to live a life free of bigotry.... So it's a fact that it's not compatible with Islam and its beliefs, to suggest you can agree with Islamic teachings and continue with the trope that it's a peaceful religion and be a liberal is in itself an oxymoron
Christopher hitchens, Dawkins and their like say it best... Islam is dangerous
Keep burying your heads in the sand
There are without doubt hundreds of millions of radical Muslims around the world... There are still 12 or 13 countries where you can be killed for being homosexual... There are many countries that treat people like shit or second rate for having a vagina and its all under the guide of their religious beliefs.
Liberal values are supposedly about equality, freedom and expression without consequence,to live a life free of bigotry.... So it's a fact that it's not compatible with Islam and its beliefs, to suggest you can agree with Islamic teachings and continue with the trope that it's a peaceful religion and be a liberal is in itself an oxymoron
Christopher hitchens, Dawkins and their like say it best... Islam is dangerous
Keep burying your heads in the sand
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The conversation is about Islamic terrorism. It's a separate issue entirely from the other stone aged belief. There are 1.8bn muslims in the world, if it was so inherently violent why haven't predominantly Muslim countries been those to rage war all over the world?
I'm not burying my head in the sand, I don't even know what you mean by liberal, just sounds like a lazy trope to describe somebody you don't understand / agree with.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I have known some liberal Muslims, sorry to disappoint.
They'd also greatly resent being lumped in with murderers, and by doing so it wouldn't be them driving a wedge.
Sometimes I wonder if people actually speak to others. It's possible for people to be proud of where they come from, be of a faith, but not accept all of what others do in the name of that faith.
I've also met homophobic atheists - of course China being an atheist state didn't and doesn't exactly make their state a liberal utopia, and even today homosexuality is still taught as being a mental disorder, even if it is 'legal'.
Oppression is not a religion, or an ideology - it's people who create atrocities in the name of those religions and ideologies, and who use them as a hook for human failings of the desire for control and power.
They'd also greatly resent being lumped in with murderers, and by doing so it wouldn't be them driving a wedge.
Sometimes I wonder if people actually speak to others. It's possible for people to be proud of where they come from, be of a faith, but not accept all of what others do in the name of that faith.
I've also met homophobic atheists - of course China being an atheist state didn't and doesn't exactly make their state a liberal utopia, and even today homosexuality is still taught as being a mental disorder, even if it is 'legal'.
Oppression is not a religion, or an ideology - it's people who create atrocities in the name of those religions and ideologies, and who use them as a hook for human failings of the desire for control and power.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I could literally replace “Islam” with “right wing” in your argument and it would be just as coherent. You certainly understand why that argument would fall down, so I assume you can work out why yours does.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Nonsense, Islam is incompatible with Liberal values, all I ever see on social media when a terror attack occurs which is more often than you realise, for example 8000 in 2018 and 33000 deaths... Is how peaceful the religion is and how we are all islamophobic for suggesting otherwise..
It's dangerous, and passive reactions to the problem are actually allowing it to manifest.
Get tough, the religion is backward and not fit for 21st century life
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
But you couldn't, because for example hundreds of thousands have died over the last 15 years through Islamic terror... Yet you want to deflect and say right wing terror is as much a problem? You're thinking is kind of the problem here., this David lammy type response is fucking laughable . Head in sand
Come have a chat with my iraqi mate about Islam and what he has to hide from his family because he's scared they will kill him... Rather than assume you know... He'd also laugh at your right wing terror comparison
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
what do you mean, get tough? Stick a million people in camps like in China?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Another war on terror should sort it
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
For starters we can stop allowing unchecked migrants into Europe?? Ban all underground sharia courts (which happen) in the UK... Arrest and give life sentences to people preaching terror and hate to the west, deport known terrorists not native to their country back to their own country's...
Act faster on known terror suspects, and come down harder on them before they are allowed to go out and kill people.
Close down any mosque known to preach against the west
Etc etc etc etc
You not bored of having these same discussions?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Or... Time to stop fanning around the cunts and halt the spread of radical Islam through Europe...
Agree?