fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
They're pretty 'armless when all is said and done
Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter LastGarrison
- Start date
Nick
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Sky Blue Harry H
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LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
The Valneva vaccine in the table that @Bugsy posted earlier in the thread appears to be an inactivated live virus. I have never heard of Valneva, but it's possibly a recent merger of companies that were more widely-known (note that these mergers and name changes often happen as a result of a knock to their capital due to failure of a drug in their advanced pipeline).
The childhood seasonal flu vaccine given as a nasal spray is what is known as a "live attenuated virus". This is a strain of the virus which has been modified such that it is biologically incapable of causing the normal infection. However, as you know from your daughter, people who have a compromised immune system for whatever reason are still at risk of developing the disease from these attenuated strains (as they are for many bacteria and viruses that the "well" population live with quite happily all the time), so they are "contra-indicated". This is a little perverse, in my view, since someone who is immunocompromised is at higher risk from the disease too.
The adult (injected) seasonal flu vaccine is an inactivated live virus (in the same mould as the Valneva offering appears to be). This means that they take the live virus, and inactivate it by a chemical method (usually) to render it supposedly incapable of causing the disease. My beef with these is that the inactivation process is not always perfect - it is based on so-called "lab validation" tests of the method, which are certified as reducing the level of live virus by a defined number of orders of magnitude (factors of 10). Hence the Domestos claim "kills 99.99% of bacteria" - a 10,000-fold reduction or "4 log kill", as it's known.
I don't know what log kill they require to prove an inactivated live vaccine is safe to use, but i know of a number of people who have had VERY flu-like symptoms in some years, so i would prefer to put my trust in biological rather than chemical inactivation.
The two vaccines that are seemingly in the lead in the race for Covid-19 (Pfizer & AstraZeneca) are neither of these things - they are nothing more than the coronavirus coat protein ("Spike") in various forms. The Spike protein on its own cannot cause disease (as far as the overwhelming body of evidence goes). The only question i would ask from your daughter's perspective is what is the chance of the remaining parts of the Adenovirus (AstraZeneca vaccine) genome being able to cause an adenovirus (common cold) infection. I believe it would be extremely low, but i don't know the precise details of the modification that they are using. The ones which are totally "gutted" are extremely tough to grow in large quantities, so i would suggest they have gone with an E1-E3 deleted one. The other thing to note is that the Adenovirus backbone they are using is from a virus that causes disease in chimpanzees, and almost certainly can't in humans. But we may have heard about viruses jumping species already somewhere in this saga.
Sorry for the wordy response, but hope this helps - i'd be putting my daughter forward if i was in your position, as the risk from Covid-19 to her is probably quite high.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Thank you - it’s certainly really helpful. I would definitely want her to have the vaccine, I’m not sure where she fits in the order of priority as it’s very adults focused from what we’ve seen so far.
At the moment she is in the ‘vulnerable’ category - but not the clinically extremely vulnerable one (she can still attend school) so they believe less risk than what was originally thought in the summer. They’ve also reduced the proportion of her immune-suppressant medication which will also make things a bit better hopefully.
One for the more knowledgeable on here, I'm coming up to 60, no health problems and would take the vaccine if offered, my only worry is how quick this is coming to market. I've seen several representations of how drugs are brought to market and most tend to span several years before a release to the general public, as I say my only worry is the rush on this one, happy for people in the know to put my mind at rest
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Ha ha.....you're just too WOKE for you're own good Nick
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I'm absolutely convinced that medicines, vaccines and the like that come to market in the UK (particularly those which have been through development in the UK) are safe, and the data from Phase III clinical trials seen by the oversight body (Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Authoity, MHRA) will indicate any concerns.
But that is my personal stance, based on my background in scientific research and now in biosecurity.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Aye, in my head as well the comparisons with other vaccines are false - i doubt there has ever been such an urgent requirement for a vaccine with such funding available for R&D, of course things would be quicker
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I know it's slightly perverse, but I've been reassured whenever they've paused trials etc. It shows they are still following process, just turbocharged.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Would be good to shoot science with you at some point OSB
hill83
Well-Known Member
That’s arguably in my top 5 jokes. Actually not even arguably. It’s top 5.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I would take it. Because of my history I had to shield from March and got the letter from the Gov telling me not to go out as I'm classed as CEV. In the grand scheme of things I presume I would be behind NHS Workers and the elderly in getting it.
I get the flu jab every year too. I just think of it as something else I would need to have.
I get the flu jab every year too. I just think of it as something else I would need to have.
pastythegreat
Well-Known Member
Its ALWAYS okay to crack a joke. Ricky Gervais once said, if you think of something funny, dont waste it by not saying it!
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pastythegreat
Well-Known Member
Whats surprising me, is the ammount of people who class themselves as the "vulnerable" category, that are petrified of this unknown virus, but would jump at the chance to have an unknown injection put directly in to their system! With no knowledge of the injection or any side effects they'll happily roll their sleeve up!
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Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Why has he never bothered to say anything funny then?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yup.
I know that medics have pointed out the virus is REMARKABLY DANGEROUS.
I know that medics will have passed any vaccine.
We already have vaccines for TB, flu etc. Smallpox is the only disease eradicated, and that was by vaccine.
Therefore, I'll trust the people with the expertise that I don't have. There is, as always, a risk. But the risk is relatively small.
Ultimately, you have to trust people with expertise!
fatso
Well-Known Member
But the trials will be over, in less than 6 months, what if there is a long term issue?
That's what worries some buggers.
hill83
Well-Known Member
Bored of experts m8
hill83
Well-Known Member
I know exactly what you mean. But for me weighing it up and what we already do know about Covid, (and still don’t know about the long term affects) it’s a risk I’ll be taking. Fuck it. I’ll be nervous though don’t get me wrong.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
It's testament to previous generations that the .managed to improve life expectancy and infant mortality without having YouTube, Facebook and Twitter to impart them the neccessary expertise.
The medical profession had decades of extremely good luck before they came along.
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
There's always that with any medication, but it's a risk vs reward that at the moment seems to be leaning heavier towards the latter.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
There was a scientist on R4 this morning, had experience with vaccines and was answering questions about safety. Few things he said (not all mentioned in this thread, but just in case):
- It doesn’t alter your DNA. The confusion is because it’s an RNA based vaccine
- The same trials with the same number of people for the same time have been done as would be done with any vaccine. It’s quicker because we’ve pumped money into it and run things in parallel where possible
- There’s already tens of thousands of people out there with the vaccine. Any issues that might appear in general rollout would be spotted quickly.
- It’s virtually unheard of for side effects to happen after a year so he’s not concerned about the fact that it’s only been developed in the last year
Overall the message seems to be its as safe as any other medicine. That doesn’t mean there’s definitely no issues but that’s always the case until you get to mass usage but all signs are it’s fine.
- It doesn’t alter your DNA. The confusion is because it’s an RNA based vaccine
- The same trials with the same number of people for the same time have been done as would be done with any vaccine. It’s quicker because we’ve pumped money into it and run things in parallel where possible
- There’s already tens of thousands of people out there with the vaccine. Any issues that might appear in general rollout would be spotted quickly.
- It’s virtually unheard of for side effects to happen after a year so he’s not concerned about the fact that it’s only been developed in the last year
Overall the message seems to be its as safe as any other medicine. That doesn’t mean there’s definitely no issues but that’s always the case until you get to mass usage but all signs are it’s fine.
Nick
Administrator
You still keep coming back here
hill83
Well-Known Member
You still keep coming back here
I need to see if you’d two foot the situation before I can form my own opinion.
Nick
Administrator
Life would be so much simpler.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
We just need to learn how to be more streetwise.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
I will have it as soon as I am invited to. It will protect me from the virus and help protect the rest of the population. The sooner most people have it the sooner we can all get back to something like normal, including going to football matches.
I trust the scientists rather than conspiracy theorists. Nothing is risk free but I am in no doubt the risk presented by having the vaccine is ridulously low compared to the risk of the virus. I think some people forget that it is not just about those who die from covid but also those who are severely harmed by it.
I know there has been a trend in recent years to denigrate experts but I am hoping the defeat of Trump is the start of people being more rational. But covid is too important an issue for silly political posturing so please do have the vaccine when you can.
I trust the scientists rather than conspiracy theorists. Nothing is risk free but I am in no doubt the risk presented by having the vaccine is ridulously low compared to the risk of the virus. I think some people forget that it is not just about those who die from covid but also those who are severely harmed by it.
I know there has been a trend in recent years to denigrate experts but I am hoping the defeat of Trump is the start of people being more rational. But covid is too important an issue for silly political posturing so please do have the vaccine when you can.
How you doing stranger?
Good to see you on here .
Get back into that music thread and give us some electronic soundtracks etc .
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
How you doing stranger?
Good to see you on here .
Get back into that music thread and give us some electronic soundtracks etc .
Thanks Wingy. Yes, not been on here quite so much over the summer and beyond. Will try and make amends.