Match Thread Derby Match Thread (13 Viewers)

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lifeskyblue

lifeskyblue

Well-Known Member
We certainly surrendered territory last night and in my opinion were far too deep. It made Walker’s job virtually impossible. Much the same as Baka first half v Norwich. Both worked extremely hard for the cause (and I would argue Baka more successfully). Against Norwich Robins was forced to change earlier due to us chasing the game for most of the second half. I’m sure if derby had scored first half we would have seen a change of personnel and formation after 55/60mins.



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Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Last season we were 7th in the xg table and looked likely to go on and win the league anyway... These stats are almost pointless

Like sunderland this season, top of league 1 xg... Not even in the playoffs and 9 teams have scored more than them

These stats don't take into account a shot from 15 yards will probably go in more often if Lionel Messi is taking the shot over matty godden for example... Or the quality of the keeper they are shooting at etc etc... They are in effect, shit
 
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SeaSeeEffCee

SeaSeeEffCee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Last season we were 7th in the xg table and looked likely to go on and win the league anyway... These stats are almost pointless
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If they’re so pointless why do the bookies and the clubs themselves all use them? If you think of them as a 100% accurate prediction tool then yeah, they’re a bit pointless, but they show trends in play which can give you an idea of how likely it is that current form is continued. You’d struggle to find many cases of a team completely dropping off midway through a season that wasn’t forecast by this kind of data.
 
SlowerThanPlatt

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Last season we were 7th in the xg table and looked likely to go on and win the league anyway... These stats are almost pointless

Like sunderland this season, top of league 1 xg... Not even in the playoffs and 9 teams have scored more than them
Click to expand...

It’s just a guide, teams can outperform them. Would disagree on them being pointless though, plenty of clubs have had success with similar data in the transfer market.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
SeaSeeEffCee said:
If they’re so pointless why do the bookies and the clubs themselves all use them? If you think of them as a 100% accurate prediction tool then yeah, they’re a bit pointless, but they show trends in play which can give you an idea of how likely it is that current form is continued. You’d struggle to find many cases of a team completely dropping off midway through a season that wasn’t forecast by this kind of data.
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They can give you an idea of where you may be lacking... But as I stated they don't take any consideration of player ability, keeper ability... Formation... Nothing.

Just gives a score based on where you take a shot from basically
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
I agree, but we've conceded many and needed to plug the gap... We need to find the balance... Probably even still
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It just goes round in circles, someone says we are weak going forward, you refer to our goals scored when a fair chunk of those came from 3 game in a system people now don't want to play. Then those who are concerned by how impotent the new setup is get called out for it.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It just goes round in circles, someone says we are weak going forward, you refer to our goals scored when a fair chunk of those came from 3 game in a system people now don't want to play. Then those who are concerned by how impotent the new setup is get called out for it.
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We're going round in circles maybe so.

Reality is we've taken 5 points from 3 games using a flat back 4 conceding 2 goals.

It depends how you look at it... And also what you wnat or expect from us this season... Survival however its achieved priority number 1... Build from there
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
The 3 atb system has served us well mostly up until this season... I have no doubt we will see it again at some point... People need to get a grip because all teams play shit from time to time.. I have no doubt if we performed anywhere near the level we can we'd have won yesterday... Didn't happen... Move on
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You: sometimes teams just play bad, nothing to do with formations.

Evo1883 said:
Look I undertstand your frustration I do... But I had several people on here tell me the formation was nothing to do with us losing games... Which in itself is an insane thing to say,as I explained formations directly influence how a game plays out in various ways...

I already said I don't mind the wing back system, but I don't think it's as simple as saying... Play it... We win.

Because we weren't

Do people want to stay up playing dull, or go down playing pretty... Or we could mix it up and utilise several formations as and when required
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Also you: people who say formations have nothing to do with us losing games is insane.

Also, I entirely reject your false dichotomy of “go down playing pretty or stay up playing dull”. We will go down based on the performances we’ve put in with 451. We’ve survived against poor teams by the skin of our teeth and decent sides will take the piss.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You: sometimes teams just play bad, nothing to do with formations.



Also you: people who say formations have nothing to do with us losing games is insane.

Also, I entirely reject your false dichotomy of “go down playing pretty or stay up playing dull”. We will go down based on the performances we’ve put in with 451. We’ve survived against poor teams by the skin of our teeth and decent sides will take the piss.
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Bollocks... Palace and Burnley are masters of survival by playing turgid shite.
Reject away you're wrong

Teams can play badly and still get results ofcourse... But on average.... We were shipping alot of goals using that system
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Are you being serious?

The management yesterday was absolutely shocking. To most people, they don't see the brilliant strike from Hamer as a reason to gloss over what was a shocking performance and a ridiculous level of tactical decisions.

I know the pubs open today but you aren't supposed to drink unless you have a substantial meal. Take it easy.
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Football is outcome based.

Whilst they weren’t the changes I would have made, the players that were brought on made and impact and we got the point in the end.

We were the better team in the first half, unlucky to have had a goal chalked off and denied a stonewall penalty. The second half was bad and we were second best, yet still got a point.

There’s a reason Prutton (who is reasonably accurate in predicting how our games will go), predicted a draw in a fixture that pitched the team with the worst home record versus the team with the worst away record.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
We're going round in circles maybe so.

Reality is we've taken 5 points from 3 games using a flat back 4 conceding 2 goals.

It depends how you look at it... And also what you wnat or expect from us this season... Survival however its achieved priority number 1... Build from there
Click to expand...

I think we'll have better survival chances by being more positive, not gung ho, against the teams around us. We bizarrely showed much more positive intent away at the league leaders than the league's bottom side
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Bollocks... Palace and Burnley are masters of survival by playing turgid shite.
Reject away you're wrong
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Finding an example where it works doesn’t mean shit. Palace and Burnley also probably built a squad for that style, not a squad of ball playing kids with all the physical presence of a fucking poltergeist.

This squad will go down just sitting off for 90 minutes and hoping to Nick a late goal. Against teams that don’t have the worst goal scoring record in the division we’d have been 3/4 down before Robins asked the subs to warm up.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I think we'll have better survival chances by being more positive, not gung ho, against the teams around us. We bizarrely showed much more positive intent away at the league leaders than the league's bottom side
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I dont know what to say... I'm actually happy for us to mix it up as and when we need to... But I see results.... I see the league position and we are where we would want to be right now
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Finding an example where it works doesn’t mean shit. Palace and Burnley also probably built a squad for that style, not a squad of ball playing kids with all the physical presence of a fucking poltergeist.

This squad will go down just sitting off for 90 minutes and hoping to Nick a late goal. Against teams that don’t have the worst goal scoring record in the division we’d have been 3/4 down before Robins asked the subs to warm up.
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There are examples of it working right throughout the football pyramid every season
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
I dont know what to say... I'm actually happy for us to mix it up as and when we need to... But I see results.... I see the league position and we are where we would want to be right now
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Why would you go for it away against the best side in the league and play passively against the worst? This is just people working backwards from their conclusion because Hamer got us out of jail
 
Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You: sometimes teams just play bad, nothing to do with formations.



Also you: people who say formations have nothing to do with us losing games is insane.

Also, I entirely reject your false dichotomy of “go down playing pretty or stay up playing dull”. We will go down based on the performances we’ve put in with 451. We’ve survived against poor teams by the skin of our teeth and decent sides will take the piss.
Click to expand...
Evo1883 said:
Bollocks... Palace and Burnley are masters of survival by playing turgid shite.
Reject away you're wrong

Teams can play badly and still get results ofcourse... But in average.... We were shipping alot of goals using that system
Click to expand...



This spat is quite funny, if only for the highbrow dismissal from shmmeee

responded to by a more down to earth Evo 🤣 🤣 🤣

Love this forum !!
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
There are example s of it working right throughout the football pyramid every season
Click to expand...

Examples of what? Squads full of physically slight ball playing kids switching system halfway through, playing out of position, and playing backs to the wall for 90 minutes? Really?
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Examples of what? Squads full of physically slight ball playing kids switching system halfway through, playing out of position, and playing backs to the wall for 90 minutes? Really?
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Teams playing styles that are designed to nullify and nick goals... With success... Every season mate... Ask Tottenham fans.. Gone from playing fluid pretty football to Mourinho football, but they look more competitive than they have for years
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Kastaneer is our best person for slide tackles. What point are you trying to make?

There are many, many reasons listed in this thread as to why the management yesterday was piss poor.

Bringing on a defender who is good at set pieces (how many has he scored) and scoring a lucky wonder strike do not paper over that.
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That defender crossed the ball in that lead to the equaliser?

In actuality, it’s no different bringing on a striker who goes on to score a goal? Or a midfielder who gets an assist.

Had we lost the game, what you’re saying would make more sense - but we got a result, and the subs had the desired effect.

Also, Hamer had so much space outside the box because Baka, Biamou and the rest were in the box being marked. 1 striker frees up a CB to maybe close down Hamer.
 
Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
By the way, if we're picking sides in the shmmeeee/Evo argument, if I remember correctly, one is/was a teacher, the other is/was in the forces. I'm on the side of the one with the rifle.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Teams playing styles that are designed to nullify and nick goals... With success... Every season mate... Ask Tottenham fans
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Yes teams designed to play that way. I’ve got no issue with any style or formation you want on the whole, my issue is this formation doesn’t suit this squad. It means we have to play people out of position and drop some of our better players. And for that reason I don’t think it’ll work.

We just don’t have the wide AMs, the ST, or the fullbacks for 4231 IMO and the change is nothing but the fact we had a tough run prior to the break and overreacted.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Yes teams designed to play that way. I’ve got no issue with any style or formation you want on the whole, my issue is this formation doesn’t suit this squad. It means we have to play people out of position and drop some of our better players. And for that reason I don’t think it’ll work.

We just don’t have the wide AMs, the ST, or the fullbacks for 4231 IMO and the change is nothing but the fact we had a tough run prior to the break and overreacted.
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IL be honest and il end my input here... Play whatever gets us results... Whatever that is I'm happy
 
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