Take the knee (25 Viewers)
- Thread starter robbiekeane
- Start date
Otis
Well-Known Member
This is the monster that modern day social media has created.
We are now filled with misinformation, misinterpretation and people latching on to stuff and just running with it, because of something they have seen on Facebook.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
it's also very convenient cover for racists not to support an anti racist message without actually admitting they're racist.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
West Ham as well
Harry Krishner
Well-Known Member
There was a vote on CC Fans Forum a couple of months ago that went "Taking the knee - yes or no?". The responses were overwhelmingly "no" - probably 95% plus.
Many feel that the killing of a man by police in the US was never particularly relevant to the UK anyway, and many were disgusted by the scenes in the following weeks - statue toppling/flag burning etc. - and still are.
Millwall supporters are also likely to have a very different perspective from much of the country - black gangs and stabbings would be very much a feature of life in those parts of London. If you get mugged in London, you have a fairly good idea who your attacker will be. I really don't understand why this never gets a mention in the whole BLM discourse.
As for the trope that racism is a deep-seated "structural" problem in the UK, the UK has absorbed millions of immigrants since say 1960 and many of them are doing very nicely. They have the same opportunities as the rest of us, and in many cases are highly adept at making the most of these. Go to China - or India - or Africa and the middle east and proclaim your entitlement to education, a decent job and fair treatment and see how far you get.
I'm genuinely not trying to wind people up but am just attempting to provide some balance as it's always just the usual suspects on here blowing smoke up each others' arses.
Great result yesterday - long may it continue.
Many feel that the killing of a man by police in the US was never particularly relevant to the UK anyway, and many were disgusted by the scenes in the following weeks - statue toppling/flag burning etc. - and still are.
Millwall supporters are also likely to have a very different perspective from much of the country - black gangs and stabbings would be very much a feature of life in those parts of London. If you get mugged in London, you have a fairly good idea who your attacker will be. I really don't understand why this never gets a mention in the whole BLM discourse.
As for the trope that racism is a deep-seated "structural" problem in the UK, the UK has absorbed millions of immigrants since say 1960 and many of them are doing very nicely. They have the same opportunities as the rest of us, and in many cases are highly adept at making the most of these. Go to China - or India - or Africa and the middle east and proclaim your entitlement to education, a decent job and fair treatment and see how far you get.
I'm genuinely not trying to wind people up but am just attempting to provide some balance as it's always just the usual suspects on here blowing smoke up each others' arses.
Great result yesterday - long may it continue.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
You really expect me to take that argument from Millwall fans, who’ve been bleating for years about how they shouldn’t all be judged by the actions of a violent minority?
D
Deleted member 4439
Guest
no not really I’ve not heard any Millwall fans say that and I’m not really bothered about them. There is little that can be done to save them. BLM has attracted some unpleasant characters with equally unpleasant views. It has also been hijacked by anyone who isn’t that fond of non white people to spread untrue propaganda. Maybe a rebrand to EDN “end discrimination now” or something else may help.
may be a shit idea but people just chucking bile and the same old rhetoric at each other doesn’t seem to work either
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
What the fuck is this?
One statue of a slaver is taken down by some students and now we have to hate black people asking for equality “for balance”?
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Can you mansplain this one away too?
Millwall fined £10,000 for supporters’ racist chanting at Everton FA Cup tie
Millwall have been fined £10,000 and ordered to implement an ‘action plan’ over alleged racist chanting by supporters at their FA Cup match against Everton last season
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
“BLM” is the notion Black Lives Matter as much as white ones. I’d hope it’s a universal sentiment to “attracts” as many shitty people as there are shitty people. I’m willing to bet a rather large amount there’s far more shitty people on the side that doesn’t think Black Lives Matter as much as white ones. Yet that side is never allowed to be tarnished because of it? Why is that?
Get to fuck with your excuses. Black people matter.
I don’t really think it’s been hijacked....it’s a leaderless mass movement that thousands of people have supported. If someone conveniently chooses to focus on the actions of a few violent pricks on the fringes, rather than the consistent actions of the peaceful majority then I have to wonder if they were ever really that into the anti-racist message in the first place. I’m sure they’d find something to moan about with the new message too.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
“Some black people aren’t perfect so I’m joining the racists”
“People are more racist in third world countries so I’m joining the racists”
“People took down a statue to a guy I’ve never heard of that the local community has been against for ages, so I’m joining the racists”
“I don’t like the universal symbol for solidarity because something something black power is violent”
Fuck all the way off until you reach the sign that says “no fucking off beyond this point”, ignore it, and fuck off some more.
“People are more racist in third world countries so I’m joining the racists”
“People took down a statue to a guy I’ve never heard of that the local community has been against for ages, so I’m joining the racists”
“I don’t like the universal symbol for solidarity because something something black power is violent”
Fuck all the way off until you reach the sign that says “no fucking off beyond this point”, ignore it, and fuck off some more.
struggling to see where I believe they don’t
If you’re curious about why black people in the UK feel like they need their own BLM movement, there are plenty of articles about it: Why activists brought the Black Lives Matter movement to the UK (No, of course they’re not the same reasons as the US movement, where things are arguably much worse)
This is some pretty crazy stereotyping (Unless you think black muggers mug people because they’re black? Also lol at the idea that Londoners have some kind of super special black person radar) Surely you already know this, but one of the points of the BLM discourse is to stop treating all black people like they’re inner city thugs. Maybe you need to spend less time clutching at straw man arguments in the name of ‘balance’ and more time thinking about the shit black people have to deal with.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Maybe he’s as uneducated in it as you. The two athletes from the 68 he referenced when talking about it wore black gloves, they also wore black socks and no shoes. Don’t think Lewis did that either.
How do you think it feels to Dabo and Rashford?
Or should we wait to hear from them until we’re done with your feelings first?
ok let me clarify. The world isn’t perfect, people aren’t perfect. Let’s ignore Millwall for a moment they are a basket case. There are a lot of people who are anti the BLM movement. Are they right? No. Do I agree? No. However the world as I said is not perfect and sometimes to deal with those imperfections you have to bite your tongue and offer a less than perfect solution. Why are people anti BLM. Because a good deal aren’t the brightest and are educated by the media. The media sell by sensationalist reporting. Most of the summer the media portrayed BLM marches as riots. Vandalism, people being beaten half to death, police being attacked. So that’s what people have seen and then are confuse why their hero’s are getting down on their knees for it. Before everyone goes nuts let me confirm. I DO NOT AGREE. However it happens. We can all sit writing sweary posts that racism is bad, we all know that but we should also be able to discuss the real life issues that underpin the problem without fear of knee jerk assumptions.
So OK - you change the slogan, make the movement more polite, dial back the rhetoric even further. Even tamer than kneeling with a raised fist for five seconds! Maybe that will be enough for the white guys who are complaining.
What happens when someone takes issue with the next set of protests? (You know for a fact they will) Do you just keep retreating? Keep trying to find the magical compromise that keeps Daily Mail readers feeling safe but also miraculously transforms race relations in this country?
You have to accept that for some people, the only acceptable amount of anti-racism protesting is zero, or close to zero. If you want to take the level of protest down to that in order to keep those people happy, fine. But again, don’t be too surprised if it doesn’t change much.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
If footballers have the right to make political statements, then so do the fans. Right?
This was always going to happen. Millwall fans are scum in many ways, but they aren't booing because they hate black people.
This was always going to happen. Millwall fans are scum in many ways, but they aren't booing because they hate black people.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
Do you think they are racist at all?
So you think just changing the slogan would persuade Millwall/Colchester fans not to boo next week?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I lived in New Cross for a while, guess how many times I saw problems caused by 'black gangs' and guess how many problems I saw caused by Millwall fans.
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I’ll do it again but for the last time. Unpalatable things happen if life and when you explain them it may be equally unpalatable and you will probably explain them whilst being in complete opposition to them. So again, wrongly the BLM movement has been portrayed by the media as a political party and rabble rousers. This has led wrongly to a reasonable number of people reacting badly to it. Whilst the less than bright people reacting to it need educating, the blame lies elsewhere
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Yes they are, I was wondering when the racist apologiser in chief would show his face.
Spon End twat
Catch up, we've literally been doing this for pages now, kneeling for equality for five seconds isn't a political statement.
I don't have a problem with fans making political statements, so long as the politics aren't hateful. What were the Millwall fans trying to say? I'm sure it was a sophisticated political critique as ever.
Otis
Well-Known Member
But the vote of maybe calling an end to the taking a knee, in no way excuses booing does it. I voted to say it should probably end and a new strategy be put in place, but still respect anyone's right to take the knee.
If I were against the wearing of poppies for Remembrance Day, because I felt it glorified and condoned war, would it be okay for me to get a few mates and for us to boo at a remembrance service?
And the killings in America were relevant here and still are, because there IS still racism here, albeit not on the same level.
"Many of them are doing very nicely" is such a lazy throwaway comment. Speak to black people. Have you not heard Hill mention the same things over and over again until he has got sick to death of it?
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Really????
Otis
Well-Known Member
There has always been a problem with racsim at Millwall.
Nick
Administrator
It is, why did it start before games?
I have absolutely no issue with asking for equality, likewise the rainbow laces, captains armbands, corner flags etc.
However, if it was rainbow equality every week then it would lose it's focus wouldn't it?
This is a genuine question, maybe naive. If a black power salute is OK then what happens if a player did a white power one?