Take the knee (16 Viewers)

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Tuesday night live on sky Milwall v QPR be interesting to see what happens

 

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[Nick]

Tuesday night live on sky Milwall v QPR be interesting to see what happens

Millwall fans applauding QPR for not taking the knee and cheering their goals?

 

[Otis]

Tuesday night live on sky Milwall v QPR be interesting to see what happens

They are Millwall, they don't care, so probably the same thing again.

Thing is, now the Millwall players are going to HAVE to take the knee again aren't they, otherwise it would be seen as just bowing down to a racist mob.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I've been quite clear in not calling you a racist, so maybe you don't need to be as upset as you say you are.

Plenty of other people have already tried to point you in the right direction, but if you're still looking for more articles which explain why raising a fist isn't always an indefensible call for violent revolution, then:

Here's a brief overview of the history of raising fists: The history of the raised fist, a global symbol of fighting oppression

Here's one athlete's interview on why he raises a fist before games (he even mentions black power as part of it!): Robert Quinn explains the reason for his raised fist

More where that came from too.

Both pieces are a bit sketchy on what they mean by ‘protect our own’. Stokely Carmichael was quite clear on what it meant to him. I’m also not saying that modern sportsmen and women are pushing for a call to arms, but in the context of civil rights this gesture and slogan were distinct from peaceful protest.

I fully understand taking the knee as I know exactly why Kaepernick did it. I still don’t really get this on the salute though.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

They are Millwall, they don't care, so probably the same thing again.

Thing is, now the Millwall players are going to HAVE to take the knee again aren't they, otherwise it would be seen as just bowing down to a racist mob.

It won’t look right with QPR not doing it the sky meltdown will be immense.

 

[Astute]

Best write to the club & ask them to have a word with our Player of the Year then.

View attachment 17782

The difference for me is one player has gone on one knee and raised an arm. The other has stood up and raised an arm.

The idea was that all players are supposed to go on one knee. Solidarity from all involved. Saying we are all the same. If a white player stood alone he would get slaughtered. A black player stands alone and he gets defended and even praised by some.

I don't have a problem with it myself. But those who do have a problem with it are given plenty of ammunition. At least it brings it back into the spotlight as it has now become something that just happens and not something thought provoking.

 

[Frostie]

The difference for me is one player has gone on one knee and raised an arm. The other has stood up and raised an arm.

The idea was that all players are supposed to go on one knee. Solidarity from all involved. Saying we are all the same. If a white player stood alone he would get slaughtered. A black player stands alone and he gets defended and even praised by some.

I don't have a problem with it myself. But those who do have a problem with it are given plenty of ammunition. At least it brings it back into the spotlight as it has now become something that just happens and not something thought provoking.

Or does this not count because he's kneeling?
Even though he didn't do it at the agreed time?

 

[skybluetony176]

Are you trying to tell a black person he doesn’t know what he’s talking about on black power?

Jeez, that’s a stereotype and a half. So all black people should know everything about black history and white people not. Fact is he referenced a specific event as his motive but didn’t emulate them in every detail. Maybe he was referencing them as black sportsmen taking a stand in comparison to himself. Maybe he deliberately didn’t wear the black glove because he considered that too inflammatory. Given you’ve gone straight to the raised fist meaning violence of actually a small percentage of the black power movement if that was Lewis Hamilton’s reasoning for not wearing a black glove then it’s fair to say he had a point.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Let’s also not forget this isn’t the first time black people asking peacefully for equal rights have been called Marxists. Same shit, different generation.

 

[Otis]

The difference for me is one player has gone on one knee and raised an arm. The other has stood up and raised an arm.

The idea was that all players are supposed to go on one knee. Solidarity from all involved. Saying we are all the same. If a white player stood alone he would get slaughtered. A black player stands alone and he gets defended and even praised by some.

I don't have a problem with it myself. But those who do have a problem with it are given plenty of ammunition. At least it brings it back into the spotlight as it has now become something that just happens and not something thought provoking.

What is his reasoning? Has he explained?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I really don't like the raised fist. More of a supremacy gesture than equality IMO.

 

[Otis]

I really don't like the raised fist. More of a supremacy gesture than equality IMO.

The knee makes more sense to me. Everyone knows the association.

 

[Astute]

Or does this not count because he's kneeling?
Even though he didn't do it at the agreed time?

View attachment 17791

Don't you mean she?

So can we keep it to before a game and not using just any old pictures?

Exactly.

So should all players take the knee or should they be able to do whatever they like?

 

[skybluetony176]

I really don't like the raised fist. More of a supremacy gesture than equality IMO.

If you look at the history of it it’s actually the complete opposite. It’s a counter to the Roman or if you prefer Nazi salute, which absolutely means supremacy.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Yes they are, I was wondering when the racist apologiser in chief would show his face.

Spon End twat

 

[Grendel]

Di Canio?

yep

 

[Astute]

What is his reasoning? Has he explained?

The idea is all players should take the knee. It shows we are all equal. But as I said someone not doing so gets defended. It also gives ammunition.

 

[Grendel]

Are you trying to tell a black person he doesn’t know what he’s talking about on black power?

Hes a thick uneducated black Man - needs to talk to Tone first

 

[Otis]

I say again, the Millwall players came out on Friday and said quite categorically, they were making the gesture purely for discrimination reasons only, so it beggars belief that their own fans chose to ignore this stance and to boo anyway.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Both pieces are a bit sketchy on what they mean by ‘protect our own’. Stokely Carmichael was quite clear on what it meant to him. I’m also not saying that modern sportsmen and women are pushing for a call to arms, but in the context of civil rights this gesture and slogan were distinct from peaceful protest.

I fully understand taking the knee as I know exactly why Kaepernick did it. I still don’t really get this on the salute though.

And hasn’t had a contract since

 

[Grendel]

I really don't like the raised fist. More of a supremacy gesture than equality IMO.

Did he wear a glove

 

[Liquid Gold]

I still can’t get over two tone guy not getting what he’s representing.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And hasn’t had a contract since

Yep disgraceful

 

[David O'Day]

I heard you're now banned from Millsys as you pissed yourself last time you were in there? It was only half 5 as well they tell me.

That walk of shame back to the spon end flats must of been a treat for you.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Jeez, that’s a stereotype and a half. So all black people should know everything about black history and white people not. Fact is he referenced a specific event as his motive but didn’t emulate them in every detail. Maybe he was referencing them as black sportsmen taking a stand in comparison to himself. Maybe he deliberately didn’t wear the black glove because he considered that too inflammatory. Given you’ve gone straight to the raised fist meaning violence of actually a small percentage of the black power movement if that was Lewis Hamilton’s reasoning for not wearing a black glove then it’s fair to say he had a point.

Or perhaps it's because you still haven't shown me where the wearing of a glove carries some extra significance. The NFL player SBT linked to doesn't wear a black glove either but is unambiguous in saying that it's first and foremost about black power as well. Is he also uneducated?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If you look at the history of it it’s actually the complete opposite. It’s a counter to the Roman or if you prefer Nazi salute, which absolutely means supremacy.

Same as the Swastika. Symbol of peace until adopted by Nazi's.

Thing is, if you saw a bunch of white guys together standing silently with one fist in the air would your immediate thought be "they're clearly fighting for equality"?

 

[David O'Day]

Both pieces are a bit sketchy on what they mean by ‘protect our own’. Stokely Carmichael was quite clear on what it meant to him. I’m also not saying that modern sportsmen and women are pushing for a call to arms, but in the context of civil rights this gesture and slogan were distinct from peaceful protest.

I fully understand taking the knee as I know exactly why Kaepernick did it. I still don’t really get this on the salute though.

The IWW were using it as a symbol back in 1917, it was a republican symbol in the Spanish Civil War, It is used by feminists, it's the symbol of the socialist international and it's the symbol of the party that currently governs Spain. It's also the symbol of Northern soul.

Just because you associate it with the BPP doesn't mean it is anything but the international symbol of Solidarity.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If you look at the history of it it’s actually the complete opposite. It’s a counter to the Roman or if you prefer Nazi salute, which absolutely means supremacy.

I guess Martin Luther King was wrong when he said that the slogan

'connotates black supremacy and an anti-white feeling that does not or should not prevail'

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The IWW were using it as a symbol back in 1917, it was a republican symbol in the Spanish Civil War, It is used by feminists, it's the symbol of the socialist international and it's the symbol of the party that currently governs Spain. It's also the symbol of Northern soul.

Just because you associate it with the BPP doesn't mean it is anything but the international symbol of Solidarity.

In the context of civil rights in the USA there is not much other association.

 

[David O'Day]

In the context of civil rights in the USA there is not much other association.

Not according to Tommie Smith the man who won gold in the 200m at the 1968 games and along with John Carlos protested on the podium.

"To this very day, the gesture made on the victory stand is described as Black Power salute; it was not." "We were students, and we were dedicated to the Olympic Project for Human Rights."

As per his autobiography.

So who is right? The man who have the most famous version of this salute or BSB?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not according to Tommie Smith the man who won gold in the 200m at the 1968 games and along with John Carlos protested on the podium.

"To this very day, the gesture made on the victory stand is described as Black Power salute; it was not." "We were students, and we were dedicated to the Olympic Project for Human Rights."

As per his autobiography.

So who is right? The man who have the most famous version of this salute or BSB?

I guess Tony is wrong as he thinks the black glove makes it a Black Power salute. Who is right about what Black Power can mean as a slogan, DOD or MLK?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not according to Tommie Smith the man who won gold in the 200m at the 1968 games and along with John Carlos protested on the podium.

"To this very day, the gesture made on the victory stand is described as Black Power salute; it was not." "We were students, and we were dedicated to the Olympic Project for Human Rights."

As per his autobiography.

So who is right? The man who have the most famous version of this salute or BSB?

That's how he intended it. It doesn't mean it hasn't been hijacked and the message altered in the meantime. As I said before the Swastika is a symbol of peace. Given Coventry is a city of peace and reconciliation should we start putting swastika's up around the place? Or do you think Hitler and neo-Nazi's using it for other means might have a bit of an effect on how people view it?

 

[skybluetony176]

I guess Tony is wrong as he thinks the black glove makes it a Black Power salute. Who is right about what Black Power can mean as a slogan, DOD or MLK?

No. I think it makes it a Black Panther Party salute

 

[Grendel]

I guess Tony is wrong as he thinks the black glove makes it a Black Power salute. Who is right about what Black Power can mean as a slogan, DOD or MLK?

The guys who wore the glove at the Olympic s said they did it as a spontaneous act as they did not want to shake hands with the guy who headed the Olympic committee due to racist behaviour in his past. Still big Tone knows better than the people who did the salute

 

[skybluetony176]

That's how he intended it. It doesn't mean it hasn't been hijacked and the message altered in the meantime. As I said before the Swastika is a symbol of peace. Given Coventry is a city of peace and reconciliation should we start putting swastika's up around the place? Or do you think Hitler and neo-Nazi's using it for other means might have a bit of an effect on how people view it?

You see versions of it all around Asia. The use predates the Nazis and is a symbol of good luck in many Asian religions and culture.