The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (141 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
I mean it could be construed as selfish but so long as there is enough cheese and wine in the cupboard then fuck the lot of it. Merry Christmas fellow Sky Blue masochists
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Devil will be in the details. Hopefully some good news in there. The worst case scenario is Johnson having basically backed down on everything but from some reports that seems a distinct possibility.

Although it shows how low the bar now is that we're praising any deal being done, that's a long way from what was initially promised. Is there anywhere we've done a deal with yet which is better than what we had as part of the EU? All the ones I've seen announced have been continuation on the same terms which makes the whole thing seem a bit of a waste of time.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
Up yours Macron? Johnson folded and has basically got the same deal May would of got in 2018, the deal he said was so bad he had to quit his cabinet job over.
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There is no way May would’ve tried to get this deal (rightly or wrongly) so she wouldn’t have got it. She wanted far closer alignment with the EU so would’ve agreed to a load of the stuff we have been pissing about with arguing for months. It’s some the nuances/small stuff that’s important ie ability to diverge without unilateral punishment, independent arbitration on level playing field (rather than ECJ ruling), gradual wind down of ten current fishing quota system etc etc.

Whether any of that stuff actually benefits us remains to be seen.

This is what we’re going to get though...cries of ‘sell out’ from Farage/ERG, ‘shit deal deal should’ve stayed’ from remainers. If that’s the case then it’s probably down the middle which means most people who just want to get on with it will be happy enough for now

ps all of the above is based on what appears to have been agreed so caveated as nobody’s has seen final text !
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
There is no way May would’ve tried to get this deal (rightly or wrongly) so she wouldn’t have got it. She wanted far closer alignment with the EU so would’ve agreed to a load of the stuff we have been pissing about with arguing for months. It’s some the nuances/small stuff that’s important ie ability to diverge without unilateral punishment, independent arbitration on level playing field (rather than ECJ ruling), gradual wind down of ten current fishing quota system etc etc.

Whether any of that stuff actually benefits us remains to be seen.

This is what we’re going to get though...cries of ‘sell out’ from Farage/ERG, ‘shit deal deal should’ve stayed’ from remainers. If that’s the case then it’s probably down the middle which means most people who just want to get on with it will be happy enough for now

ps all of the above is based on what appears to have been agreed so caveated as nobody’s has seen final text !
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Rees Mogg backing it apparently. Maybe even the ERG are realising after the year we've had no deal would be too disastrous even for the disaster capitalists.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Devil will be in the details. Hopefully some good news in there. The worst case scenario is Johnson having basically backed down on everything but from some reports that seems a distinct possibility.

Although it shows how low the bar now is that we're praising any deal being done, that's a long way from what was initially promised. Is there anywhere we've done a deal with yet which is better than what we had as part of the EU? All the ones I've seen announced have been continuation on the same terms which makes the whole thing seem a bit of a waste of time.
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On a trade basis that’s what pretty much everyone wanted though Dave ie trade continues as was (albeit there will be more paperwork !)

Depends what you voted for though I guess. I drafted a long (and dull) post a couple of weeks back but didn’t bother posting as it’s just ploughing over old ground and too long to stick on here. Think I’ve got a draft somewhere if anyone’s interested (and very bored) PM me
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
On a trade basis that’s what pretty much everyone wanted though Dave ie trade continues as was (albeit there will be more paperwork !)

Depends what you voted for though I guess. I drafted a long (and dull) post a couple of weeks back but didn’t bother posting as it’s just ploughing over old ground and too long to stick on here. Think I’ve got a draft somewhere if anyone’s interested (and very bored) PM me
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exactly even by his standards it’s a bizarre post
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
It’sabatch87 said:
Well done to the government for getting a deal,Just hope it can be respected by all people from left to right now.
Give them some credit,And up yours Macron🖕
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They’ll be far more shit fits about this deal coming from the right and the ERG than there will be from the left you can be sure of that.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
They’ll be far more shit fits about this deal coming from the right and the ERG than there will be from the left you can be sure of that.
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I doubt that very much. If the reports are accurate this is a fairly significant shift from the deal May proposed.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Just turned on 5live and the first words I heard were state aid though obviously missed what had preceded it.
I'd forgotten all about the complaint but I wonder how it will be affected?
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I doubt that very much. If the reports are accurate this is a fairly significant shift from the deal May proposed.
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Again flitting in and out of the room where 5live was on but caught them saying something about how far the UK could diverge from EU standards was a huge stumbling block but both sides have agreed to an adjudication body being set up to rule on such matters
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
On a trade basis that’s what pretty much everyone wanted though Dave ie trade continues as was (albeit there will be more paperwork !)

Depends what you voted for though I guess. I drafted a long (and dull) post a couple of weeks back but didn’t bother posting as it’s just ploughing over old ground and too long to stick on here. Think I’ve got a draft somewhere if anyone’s interested (and very bored) PM me
Click to expand...

Had some farmers on 5live, they said they were glad we've got a deal but they said there was going to be a big increase in vetinary costs and a potential shortage of vets
Again didn't hear the detail!
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
wingy said:
Wonder how things would have gone on all round if Sinn fein had ever taken their seat's.
Does anyone have a view if that event will ever occur.
Or what rhe prevailing conditions would need to be if/when it does?0
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Never going to happen.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Again flitting in and out of the room where 5live was on but caught them saying something about how far the UK could diverge from EU standards was a huge stumbling block but both sides have agreed to an adjudication body being set up to rule on such matters
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And Brexit was supposed to cut bureaucracy.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Just turned on 5live and the first words I heard were state aid though obviously missed what had preceded it.
I'd forgotten all about the complaint but I wonder how it will be affected?
Click to expand...

It was a crazy sticking point really as the other main EU nations use far more state aid than us (check out France !). Hopefully what’s agreed is a two way punishment if either the EU of ourselves excessively assist certain sectors which then gives us/them unfair competitive advantage (could be a money spinner for us !) Any flexibility for us is probably more beneficial for next left leaning government (one of the reasons I’m surprised with many on the left hating Brexit so much, certainly I’m guessing why Corbo wanted out !). I’d imagine both will allow whatever to help with post Covid mess.

ps as we all keep saying, devils in the detail though
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Had some farmers on 5live, they said they were glad we've got a deal but they said there was going to be a big increase in vetinary costs and a potential shortage of vets
Again didn't hear the detail!
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A lot of farmers voted for Brexit but would’ve benefited from CAP. By all accounts (again only what I’ve read) but we’re planning on a far more environmentally friendly agri subsidy policy. Bet many farmers won’t like it and wish they’d voted to remain !!!
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
A lot of farmers voted for Brexit but would’ve benefited from CAP. By all accounts (again only what I’ve read) but we’re planning on a far more environmentally friendly agri subsidy policy. Bet many farmers won’t like it and wish they’d voted to remain !!!
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You had leave voting farmers the next day asking where are they going to get their labour from. Farmers (collectively) haven’t exactly done anything to dispel the myth that they’re stupid. I can’t read and I can’t write but I can vote Brexit.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
There is no way May would’ve tried to get this deal (rightly or wrongly) so she wouldn’t have got it. She wanted far closer alignment with the EU so would’ve agreed to a load of the stuff we have been pissing about with arguing for months. It’s some the nuances/small stuff that’s important ie ability to diverge without unilateral punishment, independent arbitration on level playing field (rather than ECJ ruling), gradual wind down of ten current fishing quota system etc etc.

Whether any of that stuff actually benefits us remains to be seen.

This is what we’re going to get though...cries of ‘sell out’ from Farage/ERG, ‘shit deal deal should’ve stayed’ from remainers. If that’s the case then it’s probably down the middle which means most people who just want to get on with it will be happy enough for now

ps all of the above is based on what appears to have been agreed so caveated as nobody’s has seen final text !
Click to expand...

It's just silliness and most of it is the UK folding but saving face. We want independent arbitration but not by the ECJ even though any panel will look at any issue though the prism of compatibility with the same laws.
As for the ability to diverge without unilateral punishment, all that means is UK accepts that divergence comes at a price (but we won't call it punishment as it never was). In practice I doubt there will be much divergence at all over time.
If this is where the UK has got to after 4 years, you've got say what an utter waste of time the whole thing has been.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
You had leave voting farmers the next day asking where are they going to get their labour from. Farmers (collectively) haven’t exactly done anything to dispel the myth that they’re stupid. I can’t read and I can’t write but I can vote Brexit.
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Yeah, I felt it a was bit strange voting stance as a sector. Supply of cheap labour, decent subsidies etc. I don’t know enough about farming/prices/competition but can only think they thought the French farmers were getting a better deal ? (when I’m guessing it’s the supermarkets that are fucking most of them ! 🤷‍♂️)
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Just turned on 5live and the first words I heard were state aid though obviously missed what had preceded it.
I'd forgotten all about the complaint but I wonder how it will be affected?
Click to expand...
As far as I understand it the rules its heard against are those which applied at the time, but, I don't get whether the EC still has any powers over residual cases like that.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
It's just silliness and most of it is the UK folding but saving face. We want independent arbitration but not by the ECJ even though any panel will look at any issue though the prism of compatibility with the same laws.
As for the ability to diverge without unilateral punishment, all that means is UK accepts that divergence comes at a price (but we won't call it punishment as it never was). In practice I doubt there will be much divergence at all over time.
If this is where the UK has got to after 4 years, you've got say what an utter waste of time the whole thing has been.
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I’ll say it again though Fernando, it depends why you voted and how it plays out. Purely trade, you might be right, was it all worth it. I’ve got to be honest as well, I didn’t expect it all to take 4.5 years, I doubt many/any did !!!

I’m guessing on divergences of key standards there would be the same type of clauses in most free trade agreements ?

Ps deal not done yet either, let’s hope we’ve not all spoken too soon !
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
I bet you had a deep understanding of the TFEU etc when voted out
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