Pask v Da Costa (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Harry H
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Torquay Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
One can defend the other can't do anything
D
Deleted member 2477
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On Saturday Da Costa just ran around like a headless chicken giving silly fouls away and lumping the ball forward in hope more than judgement.
Pask all day even if he is more defence minded rather than attack.Da Costa is a liability waiting to happen
Pask all day even if he is more defence minded rather than attack.Da Costa is a liability waiting to happen
Torquay Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He reminded me of a kid at school who's been put in the team to make the numbers up. Go out on the wing and just make a nuisance of yourself
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not primarily. When we’ve got 6 defensive players in the middle they are responsible for most of our attacking impetus.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
It really isn't.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
We need to get more bodies from midfield involved in attacking play in the opposition's half and getting into the box. Crossing the ball from wide into one striker has been failing all season as a source of creativity for us. I don't think that DaCosta is the answer to that and only makes us more fragile at that back than we already are because it pulls the right sided centre back too wide to cover him.
For me, Sheaf has to come back in for Kelly or James, as a minimum. That central midfield balance is completely off at the moment.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Oh, I agree with that as well. But if we’re sticking with wing backs then we’ve got to understand the importance of their attacking impetus in stretching the play horizontally and moving us up the pitch. If we revert to a back 4, then not a problem playing Pask. But in a WB role, no.
Offhegoes
Well-Known Member
Da Costa. Although he was poor against Wycombe on Saturday, he offers more going forward. Pask is a centre back by trade and I would like to see him get a chance in the back 3. Think people are jumping the gun on Da Costa. He's only started 2 or 3 games, new country, being injured for half the season. More than adequate back up for Dabo in my eyes
JulianDarbyFTW
Well-Known Member
I think Pask came on for Rose as he could cover that right side for DC. I have to admit, DC really entertains me, but he does look like an accident waiting to happen.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Robins said in his post match interview that Rose was doing fine on the ball but losing his shape out of possession and not getting back quick enough, which is why he was subbed - basically lack of match fitness rather than a tactical change.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
I don't think Pask is shy to get forward, it's not like playing McFadz or Hyam there, and if he's instructed to do that I think he would. He's young and got the pace for it. If anything he looks like he needs a run of games and I think he will adapt and his level will improve, whereas with DaCosta I don't think he's in control of anything he does. Even when he runs I think there's a little voice in his head going 'Left foot, Right foot, Left foot, Right foot, Left foot, Right foot...Where's the ball? Where's the ball?.....BALL!'
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
I've been harsh on DaCosta and a little(!) over the top but what I'm really trying to say is that I think he lacks any kind of football intelligence.
He's got height, athleticism and I can see why on paper his stats probably made good reading. But I think because of that lack of football intelligence (and I appreciate that is just my own perception) that he won't have any scope to significantly improve - he'll do the occasional brilliant thing that will make some fans love him but it won't ever become more consistent.
Perhaps highlights the dangers of recruiting from abroad based on spreadsheets and not being able to thoroughly scout a player in the traditional manner.
He's got height, athleticism and I can see why on paper his stats probably made good reading. But I think because of that lack of football intelligence (and I appreciate that is just my own perception) that he won't have any scope to significantly improve - he'll do the occasional brilliant thing that will make some fans love him but it won't ever become more consistent.
Perhaps highlights the dangers of recruiting from abroad based on spreadsheets and not being able to thoroughly scout a player in the traditional manner.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Complete myth that we recruit like that.
D
Deleted member 11652
Guest
If Robins agreed that was the case, Giles would have played every week.
D
Deleted member 11652
Guest
And if Robins did actually watch Hilssner, Kastaneer and Da Costa, you have to question what exactly he saw.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Really. So who's job is it to protect, or 'defend' the wide areas from opposition attacks? If the wingbacks don't track back and tackle do you think the response is going to be "it's Ok, they're a wingback. It's not their job"?
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
How is our foreign recruitment happening then? I'd be shocked if anyone directly employed by the club has seen him play live more than once before he signed.
D
Deleted member 11652
Guest
In 67 games for us, Dabo has only managed 4 assists and 0 goals. If attacking is his main job, why are we still persisting with him?
Mccallum has 4 goals and 6 assists in 77 games yet we persisted with him over Giles. Big questions have to be asked of Robins if these players are supposed to be ‘attackers’ primarily
Frostie
Well-Known Member
You have to be able to defend a bit as well, of course, but I'm saying it's not their number 1 principle & to say that it's just a fancy name for an attacking full back is really not understanding the role at all.
Giles struggles with defending, positionally as much as anything & he was completely one dimensional with his attacking anyway. Somehow since he's left he's considered the 2nd coming of Andy Robertson despite still failing to nail down a regular starting berth in a team below us.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Also clue is in the name. Wing BACK. They're not Wingforwards (or wingers as they're comply known). Or even wing (or wide ) midfielders.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
The same as at most top clubs nowadays, through a combination of traditional scouting & technical scouting.
Technical scouting enables us to get the low down on an enormous amount of players that fit the managers criteria with no cognitive bias & is obviously completely objective. Targets are identified & then scouted in the traditional way
too as technical scouting obviously has limitations such as contextual importance, systems they might be playing in & assessing intangible attributes (mentality, leadership, motivation etc etc).
We watch all the players multiple times. Hilßner for example was over a year in the making & Hamer is one Badlan has followed for around 5 years, since his time at Wolves etc. so when we knew we were going to be in the Championship but unable to retain Walsh he was an obvious target. We managed to swoop in & get him because for most of the previous year he'd been playing Right Back so might have been overlooked by other clubs. Due to the extensive research we'd already done he was already right near the top of our list.
Read one of Badlan's interviews or read up on technical Scouting if you're interested.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
I think we should get more from them but they've been stifled somewhat in the Championship & forced deeper than we'd like. It's not always about them being the main creators either though as we're not really a team that thrives on crossing. At other clubs wing-backs can be creators though, look at the numbers Roberts & Bidwell put up at Swansea for example.
Instead, what they enable us to do is press high & stretch the pitch as much as possible to create space in the centre of the pitch for attacks to come from there. Liam Walsh in particular absolutely thrived on this last season.
It's not been as effective this season, sure but I think that's due to the quality we're up against more than anything.
Look at Dabo & McCallum on the image below, not exactly what you'd expect to see from
someone who is primarily a defender is it?
D
Deleted member 11652
Guest
I don’t disagree with you about the role of a wingback and certainly last year they found themselves a lot higher up the pitch.
I think it’s very telling that you’ve gone back to last season to find that screenshot and tells you that primarily this season our wingbacks have been defenders.
I think heat maps from both last season and this season would tell us that.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That incident where he won a foul after he stumbled into their player after a heavy touch to take him infield, he looked like rugby player going in for a scrum.
SkyBlueSoul
Well-Known Member
Other than the 2nd half v Forest where he turned into Julien Da Bruyne, I haven't seen enough quality from Dacosta. Pask feels like the safer, more capable defender but didn't he also score on his full debut (League Cup?) from the wing back position last season?
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Frostie
Well-Known Member
That's coz I had that image saved more than anything... Lazy, sorry!
I do think we've attempted to do the same this season, certainly early on in games, but we have been forced back. You are right though, I'm certain that on average we've definitely been deeper this season, mostly due to the increased quality of our opponents but also perhaps being a bit more disjointed centrally.
I can get heat maps for individual games but not the full season at this stage.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
