The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (136 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Interesting to see the fluctuating opinions, the only constant being those who dont give a fuck. They are probably the only sane ones amongst us!

You can see the “wrongs” peak in Dec when the EU started falling behind, and the “rights” really pick up in Jan when it was clear how much better we were.

As I say, mental because we started inside the EU and could’ve done it all anyway, but that’s politics for you. All about the narrative.

 

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[PVA]

TBF (for I think the first time since 2017 maybe?) you’d be right:

View attachment 19681

Do you have the source for that poll?

Because I saw one the other day with a similar result and it turned out they basically surveyed a load of white men aged 40+

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But everyone was telling you and your heroes were saying it was nonsense.

Knew this would happen once the whole “oh all politicians are corrupt” bollocks started after the expenses scandal. All it does is give free reign to the actual arseholes because now you think that’s just what they do.

No, it’s not what politics is. Demand better.

Although I believe it's the best overall system of governance without doubt a downside to democracy is that to get elected you have to pander to what people want rather than what they need.

If kids had the chance to live with a parent who gave them fast food every night or one who gave them a balanced meal and made them eat their veg, their instinct would be fast food. They'd go for what they want, not what what they need and end up massively unhealthy.

But I agree we can and should be demanding much, much better. Most of those scandal hit in this government should've been made to resign or hounded out if they weren't. It's a disgrace. Profumo was only a minister and had to resign for an affair, now a serial philanderer in the top job is apparently 'not newsworthy'. Well, for me it gives a good indication of the trustworthiness, integrity and consideration to others of the person in the top office in the land and that makes it fucking newsworthy.

 

[CCFCSteve]

You do know that the EU’s stance was to keep using it?

I’ve been desperately trying to avoid commenting on this thread, what’s done is done/said been said etc, but then saw Shmmeee’s out of date poll (which was then rectified !! Fair play shmmeee) and noted it was different to what Id seen recently

One of the main reasons is there’s been a lot more to the EUs vaccine stance than just recommendation to using it Tony

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Basically the procurement mess and their subsequent conduct towards us has started changing minds.

Ps I know many are upset by Johnson’s behaviour on NI, which is understandable (especially you Tony as I appreciate you are very closely connected), but if anyone thinks the EU has behaved with honesty abs integrity you are sadly mistaken

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Is my quote wrong? Is that not indeed the case today? It might not be palatable, but its factual.
Do you think if the referendum was ran today the outcome would be any different?

Paddy's problems are our problems, and certainly Johnson's. He's Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.*

*Well, for the moment at least. And that's not because I think Johnson is going anywhere (despite the huge number of reasons he should be) but because the UK is pretty much at the irreversible stage of splitting now.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

it's a case of damned if you do damned if you dont. Something had to give in order to get brexit done by the deadline.
He made the deadline, delivered brexit as promised in his manifesto, and now he has to fix the fall out.
I'm not defending his actions, but I dont see how he could of done anything else in the timescale available.
Telling the truth would of been a disaster, (if the truth was, I dont have a clue how to solve NI)
My guess is, he will stroll of into retirement as the man who successfully delivered Brexit, and leave someone else to pick up the pieces.

Not good, but that's politics now I'm afraid.

Trouble is he hasn't delivered it successfully. He's failed to get virtually any of the things he promised he would and now he's complaining that he hasn't got them. By those criteria just breaking up Britain would be successful as Britain can't be in the EU if Britain doesn't exist.

It's his and parliaments job to say these things, not just turn round and say "yes, you can all have everything you want" when that quite clearly isn't even close to being achievable. It's a lie to boost his own power and ego.

He will go down in history as an incompetent, randy buffoon not averse to a bit of corruption and cronyism who got power because he was quite charismatic.

 

[Grendel]

Although I believe it's the best overall system of governance without doubt a downside to democracy is that to get elected you have to pander to what people want rather than what they need.

If kids had the chance to live with a parent who gave them fast food every night or one who gave them a balanced meal and made them eat their veg, their instinct would be fast food. They'd go for what they want, not what what they need and end up massively unhealthy.

But I agree we can and should be demanding much, much better. Most of those scandal hit in this government should've been made to resign or hounded out if they weren't. It's a disgrace. Profumo was only a minister and had to resign for an affair, now a serial philanderer in the top job is apparently 'not newsworthy'. Well, for me it gives a good indication of the trustworthiness, integrity and consideration to others of the person in the top office in the land and that makes it fucking newsworthy.

“you have to pander to what people want as to what they need” Stalin couldn’t say it better himself

 

[shmmeee]

Do you have the source for that poll?

Because I saw one the other day with a similar result and it turned out they basically surveyed a load of white men aged 40+

Its statistics so source is only if you pay, did find another link on whatukthinks.org but it wouldn’t load.

TBF there are one or two old white men in the U.K...

 

[shmmeee]

“you have to pander to what people want as to what they need” Stalin couldn’t say it better himself

Or, you know, literally every successful political figure in history.

 

[Evo1883]

Its statistics so source is only if you pay, did find another link on whatukthinks.org but it wouldn’t load.

TBF there are one or two old white men in the U.K...

Yea but why are there alot of old white men mate ...why

Il admit I did grin at your response

 

[PVA]

TBF there are one or two old white men in the U.K...

There are, but they basically polled the Brexit voting demographic

 

[skybluetony176]

Paddy's problems are our problems, and certainly Johnson's. He's Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.*

*Well, for the moment at least. And that's not because I think Johnson is going anywhere (despite the huge number of reasons he should be) but because the UK is pretty much at the irreversible stage of splitting now.

Also leader of the now ironically named Conservative and Unionist Party.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Also leader of the now ironically named Conservative and Unionist Party.

He's the Conservative and Unionist Notional Tsar.

 

[skybluetony176]

I see the Food and Drink Federation have estimated that Brexit has cost the industry £1.1B in lost trade already this year. No down side.

 

[Evo1883]

I see the Food and Drink Federation have estimated that Brexit has cost the industry £1.1B in lost trade already this year. No down side.

Absolutely nothing to do with covid ?

 

[skybluetony176]

Absolutely nothing to do with covid ?

Don’t see how it can be. Covid hasn’t stopped the EU consuming food. Can’t really blame stockpiling either as we’re talking largely about perishable goods.

 

[Evo1883]

Don’t see how it can be. Covid hasn’t stopped the EU consuming food. Can’t really blame stockpiling either as we’re talking largely about perishable goods.

Does this not include hospitality (resteraunts etc) at all ?

A huge amount of perishable goods used In this industry

I struggle to accept its all on brexit during this global pandemic

I'm not saying it wouldn't be down , I'm saying I'm not sure brexit is completely at fault here

 

[Evo1883]

This is from their report

Given that much of the hospitality industry has not long reopened albeit in a limited way ...I think COVID 19 definitely reflects on the huge loss in a substantial way

 

[skybluetony176]

Another Brexit kick in the teeth for fishermen.

Redirect Notice

www.google.co.uk

 

[Skybluefaz]

Another Brexit kick in the teeth for fishermen.

Redirect Notice

www.google.co.uk

No UK caught cod to be sold in British chippies apparently. All to be imported.

 

[PVA]

Absolutely nothing to do with covid ?

Barely.

Look at the graph in the top right. That's all on Brexit, not Covid.

Also exports to the EU dropped by 41% but exports to non-EU countries rose by 9%.

 

[PVA]

Remember when they basically pinned the whole importance of Brexit on the fishing industry?

That went well.

Funny how it's all that Johnson and various Leavers used to bang on about for months and now they are completely silent on it.

 

[shmmeee]

Remember when they basically pinned the whole importance of Brexit on the fishing industry?

That went well.

Funny how it's all that Johnson and various Leavers used to bang on about for months and now they are completely silent on it.

Anyone would think it’s a mishmash of patriotic bollocks designed to rile people up to vote against their own interests and enrich the upper classes.

 

[skybluetony176]

“Fishing will be the acid test of Brexit “ said some bloke.

 

[PVA]

oof

 

[Evo1883]

Barely.

Look at the graph in the top right. That's all on Brexit, not Covid.

Also exports to the EU dropped by 41% but exports to non-EU countries rose by 9%.

It is literally impossible to be all down to brexit , when most of the country's hospitality has been completely shut for a few months .

Literally impossible , arguing otherwise would be hilarious

 

[wingy]

Barely.

Look at the graph in the top right. That's all on Brexit, not Covid.

Also exports to the EU dropped by 41% but exports to non-EU countries rose by 9%.

Quite staggering how Ireland stands out there, two or three other significant reductions but to nowhere near that value .
Sounds miniscule when taken against the 300B trade overall though.

 

[Evo1883]

For reference on the graphs ..the last lockdown was announced on January 4th .
Which is in line with the steep drop , it also coincided with the end of the transition period...

But to suggest it's all brexit is a million miles from being the truth

 

[shmmeee]

It is literally impossible to be all down to brexit , when most of the country's hospitality has been completely shut for a few months .

Literally impossible , arguing otherwise would be hilarious

Can you elaborate on this? Exports dropped sharply when Brexit kicked in and only to the EU. Hell of a coincidence if it’s not Brexit.

 

[shmmeee]

For reference on the graphs ..the last lockdown was announced on January 4th .
Which is in line with the steep drop , it also coincided with the end of the transition period...

But to suggest it's all brexit is a million miles from being the truth

But why didn’t it drop by the same amount across of markets?

 

[Evo1883]

Can you elaborate on this? Exports dropped sharply when Brexit kicked in and only to the EU. Hell of a coincidence if it’s not Brexit.

A further lockdown came into place on January 4th too .

It's not ALL brexit which is what PVA implied

 

[Evo1883]

But why didn’t it drop by the same amount across of markets?

You genuinely suggesting that whole decline is all on brexit ?
It's impossible , literally impossible

 

[shmmeee]

A further lockdown came into place on January 4th too .

It's not ALL brexit which is what PVA implied

But we’re talking about the huge disparity between the drop in EU exports and the rest. Not the overall picture.

Personally I think it’ll bounce back as a lot of people stockpiled and are still getting used to the forms, but that’s still Brexit.

We’ll see where it is this time next year. The pandemic makes all these discussions almost impossible.

 

[PVA]

It is literally impossible to be all down to brexit , when most of the country's hospitality has been completely shut for a few months .

Literally impossible , arguing otherwise would be hilarious

How is it 'literally impossible' when the graph 'literally' shows the decline perfectly coincides with Brexit, and actually increased during Covid (after an initial blip)?

And how do you explain exports rising to non-EU countries, are only EU countries affected by Covid?

How do you explain food & drink exports from the EU to non EU countries being down 7% (compared to 40% from the UK to the EU)?

 

[Evo1883]

But we’re talking about the huge disparity between the drop in EU exports and the rest. Not the overall picture.

Personally I think it’ll bounce back as a lot of people stockpiled and are still getting used to the forms, but that’s still Brexit.

We’ll see where it is this time next year. The pandemic makes all these discussions almost impossible.

I think we will have a strong bounce back this year... I have no idea to what expect overall and going into next year ...