Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
No, I hope it is a re-enactment. Would be much less embarrassing.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Not that it will come to it, but the French do have a bigger navy to be fair. Plus the French have a much better bargaining position. They have Jersey's electricity, Jersey has...some fish. That even Jersey doesn't want.
And anyway its barely being reported in France. Its just this stupid government and our complicit media making a big deal of it, conveniently on election day. The Tory voter base will absolutely love this shit.
And anyway its barely being reported in France. Its just this stupid government and our complicit media making a big deal of it, conveniently on election day. The Tory voter base will absolutely love this shit.
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
It's not over. Far from it.
It's only over to idiots like you who have absolutely no idea what's going on and think you've 'won'.
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
Yes but what did you actually win? Because nearly 5 years later I don't think anyone has actually seen any tangible benefits or anything that could be classed as a win.
The fact you think it's over says it all.
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
At least mention the EU/European countries immunity from criticism as well Shmmeee ?! there’s some on here that back their stance however embarrassing. It’s almost like even when the EU are in the wrong (vaccines, fishing etc) people on here* will back them to the hilt. It’s bizarre !
*not all, just some real Remainer stalwarts who probably listen to James O’Brien. There’s some that were happy to call out the EU behaviour, in particular on vaccines/AZ etc
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s part of the issue though. Just on vaccines (as you brought it up). Firstly we didn’t do anything that we couldn’t have done had we been full members in the eu, indeed we did it in the transition period so were still subject to EU laws and regulations. Never reported like that though (unless you listen to James O’Brien of course, again, seeing as you brought it up) by the MSM and most brexiteers choose not to believe it and it is a choice. Regarding AZ, often reported that the EU banned it. The EU never banned jack, the EMA which is the only body that could have banned it only ever recommend it’s use, 10 EU countries exercised their sovereign rights (that dismisses another Brexit myth) to suspend temporarily the rollout of the vaccine while now undisputed claims of blood clots was investigated.
Stating facts is stating facts. It’s not a defence of anything and stating facts certainly isn’t embarrassing. The spreading of outright lies and misinformation by MSM and politicians alike to defend another lie (perceived Brexit bonuses) is embarrassing, too unquestionably accept those lies is embarrassing, to then spread those lies further is embarrassing.
It's not that the EU are immune from criticism, it's just that there is less to criticise them about than this government.
Same as the Tory v Labour debate in the politics thread. Nobody is saying Labour is squeaky clean, just that the tories are bloody awful. Some take that to mean that people think Labour are perfect, but that's not what they're saying at all.
As for this debate, why do you think the EU are in the wrong on fishing?
I am chilled! Like I said, the only people making a big deal about it are the government and the media (and your favourite term, the flagshaggers!)
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think most remainers on here other than the odd extreme have been pretty clear that the EU fucked up the vaccines, honesty personally I neither know nor care too much about fishing so can’t comment there.
But why must everyone discussion be Britain vs the EU until the end of time. It’s all very much stalking your ex’s Facebook for me.
totally agree, which is why I steer clear as its done but then when I see people sticking up for the EU on stuff (potentially on things that are to the detriment of the Uk) when they are in the wrong, I just find it strange.
I also love an analogy and from what I’ve seen (or my perception) is the UK is trying to move on and the EU is like the scolded ex that is desperate not to see their old fella be happy !
ps it’s the Brexit thread
Sorry but this could not be further from the truth!
I think a better analogy would be that the UK decided they wanted a divorce, despite having a nice relationship, then afterwards decided they want all the good stuff of a relationship without any of the annoying stuff, and their ex is quite rightly telling them to piss off.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I agree , good point
You don’t appear to see any EU failings though Tony, that’s fair enough, but it’s not just Brexiteers, Barnier said it himself the other day.
Basically, the EU shouldn’t be interfering in stuff that should be left to member states. The EU stopped four members from negotiating a contract with AZ and then took 2+ months to agree a deal. The same would’ve happened with us if we were still in. Members states only then started doing their own thing after the collective procurement fuck up.
I never said/read that the EU banned any vaccine but they/member states have tried to mask their bureaucratic incompetence (which to be fair started with good intentions) with various other actions; spreading disinformation about AZ jab, threatening to ban exports of vaccines from a private companies under contract, triggering and then withdrawing article 16 and have now threatened to sue a manufacturer that’s trying to produce vaccines at cost for the world (whilst still hoarding millions of jabs unused because of their own misinformation).
If you don’t see anything wrong with the above then as I say, fair enough, but many leavers and remainers do.
Ps I know it’s a MailOnline video, first time I’ve seen the actual video, but easiest link to find on google (and it’s barnier rather than Mail/Brexit paper views I wanted to share)
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s not even remotely true. I not only acknowledged that they got vaccine procurement wrong in the first instance I also stated in the first instance that I would have been angry with our sovereign government if we hadn’t gone our own way. Pointing out inaccuracies like we couldn’t have done it if we hadn’t left when we quite clearly could have and pointing out that the vaccine was never banned is not a failure to criticise the EU, especially when I actually have. You’re demonstrating perfectly an illness that many a brexiteer seems to suffer from, an aversion to fact.
Ive said before though, legally we could’ve gone our own way on procurement, but it just wouldn’t/couldn’t have happened politically and like Italy, France, Germany (and I think Holland) it would’ve been stopped. Also, there is no way a member state would’ve then been allowed to (again politically) surge ahead with their vaccine rollout whilst other member states struggled.
I’ve said previously I can’t knock the theory behind what the EU wanted to try to do ie if you’re a bloc and ultimately trying to forge a closer union, you can’t then allow larger/richer nations go off and do their own thing, possibly to the detriment of smaller, poorer member states. Unfortunately as we’ve seen, in a shitstorm like Covid rightly or wrongly, everyone expects their government/nations to look after themselves first.
Ps I’m proud that we did our bit by funding a not for profit vaccine and have chucked more into Covax than most, but I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t want this country vaccinated asap, even if it meant others had to wait a bit longer
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Another flag waving populist
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
What's the problem with the picture mate ?
Edit : just seen
Took me a few seconds to be fair
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
Yes I want us to make our rules not some unelected useless idiot in the EU doing it for us.
Look how they’ve done with the vaccine fcuking clueless bunch of idiots arguing while their population suffers and dies.
But I suppose that’s ok in your eyes.
If the EU are that good why do all the immigrants try and cross the channel?
They know what’s the best country in the world that’s why!!
oakey
Well-Known Member
During the referendum campaign some on the Leave side were at pains to remind us that Europe and the EU were not the same thing, and, furthermore we could look forward to good relations with other sovereign nations.
Now, it appears when any of those sovereign nations in Europe do something we dislike we must loudly condemn the EU. In addition we must loudly declare our sovereignty on issues where we could have, and did, do previously - such as vaccines.
I suspect some Brexiters have just wanted a war with the French or Spanish all along. Too many war films in our youth.
Now, it appears when any of those sovereign nations in Europe do something we dislike we must loudly condemn the EU. In addition we must loudly declare our sovereignty on issues where we could have, and did, do previously - such as vaccines.
I suspect some Brexiters have just wanted a war with the French or Spanish all along. Too many war films in our youth.
What specific rules did the EU put in place that you didn't like?
Which specific rules were in place that we couldn't change as a result of being in the EU?
As for populations being left to suffer and die, 130k people are dead in this country, many thousands of them as a result of this government's incompetence.
The boomers would love a war.
They go on like they single handedly won WW2 so another war they could take no part in but take all the credit for would be great for them.
Sending these two ships over to meet some French fishermen would have given them their first boner in years.
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
France, Germany and about 10 other EU countries take many more asylum seekers than we do so I'm not sure what your point is. Or by your own logic are you saying the EU is better?
Now can you answer my questions about rules and laws.