Ben Sheaf future (4 Viewers)

[Deleted member 9744]

Hamer has been criticized for giving the ball away in dodgy areas tbf.
But Hamer is also twice the talent of Sheaf and capable of being a match winner on his day.

Out of interest, would you rather buy Sheaf, or drop our interest in him and use some of the money to tempt Liam Walsh?

Don't forget we are comparing Walsh from League 1 to Sheaf in the Championship. Walsh has never managed to establish himself at this level yet, and I feel Sheaf did. And let's not forget Walsh has hardly played since March 2020.

I like Walsh and would like him back if possible but it is not a definite that he would be good enough in the Championship. Probably but not definite.

 

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[KenilworthSkyBlue]

McFadz is the other main culprit who gives the ball away in dangerous areas and ideally I’d like to drop him to the bench this season if we can find someone better


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As was Hyam for a large chunk of the season. But because he was a fan favourite coming into the Championship he wasn't maligned anywhere near as much as Sheaf.

However, that's neither here nor there. The point is, most of the team were prone to giving the ball away, not just Sheaf. Unfortunately that was a consequence of playing against far superior opposition than what we were up against in League One. Yet a stigma seems to be attached solely to Sheaf to push some kind of agenda as to why we shouldn't be paying £750k for him.

 

[Frostie]

It's probably one or the other due to our budget restrictions, and 750k being a big fee for us in recent times.
For me, I'd sooner we sign Walsh, he just looked a better player and a better fit for us.
And as I've said, Eccles looks like he could develop into the player we need to fill the Sheaf roll, and could save us the 750k in the long run.

Eccles has had 1 Championship start in that position in a dead rubber game. Sheaf was one of the best at the role in L1 & largely performed well in 21 starts there in the Championship.

I'm sure Eccles will be great in the future but it's a big ask to expect him to be at that level immediately.

 

[fatso]

Eccles has had 1 Championship start in that position in a dead rubber game. Sheaf was one of the best at the role in L1 & largely performed well in 21 starts there in the Championship.

I'm sure Eccles will be great in the future but it's a big ask to expect him to be at that level immediately.

I did say Eccles "could develop into the player we need" by which I mean in the future.
Hopefully we will have Hamer, James, O'hare, Kelly and who knows who else competing for midfield places come the start of the season.

 

[Esoterica]

Don't forget we are comparing Walsh from League 1 to Sheaf in the Championship. Walsh has never managed to establish himself at this level yet, and I feel Sheaf did. And let's not forget Walsh has hardly played since March 2020.

I like Walsh and would like him back if possible but it is not a definite that he would be good enough in the Championship. Probably but not definite.

People have forgotten how often Walsh got caught on the ball too in his first few matches, and that was L1. I bet a fair few of the posters on here saying they'd rather have Walsh on a free than Sheaf were the same ones howling at the moon when Walsh was getting caught on the edge of his own box.

 

[Frostie]

I did say Eccles "could develop into the player we need" by which I mean in the future.
Hopefully we will have Hamer, James, O'hare, Kelly and who knows who else competing for midfield places come the start of the season.

So if James chooses to go elsewhere you'd just have Kelly in that role with Eccles as backup?
I love everything Kels has done for us & he's invaluable to keep around, but he's almost certainly going to miss huge chunks of games & his ball retention at this level is really, really poor.

 

[fatso]

So if James chooses to go elsewhere you'd just have Kelly in that role with Eccles as backup?
I love everything Kels has done for us & he's invaluable to keep around, but he's almost certainly going to miss huge chunks of games & his ball retention at this level is really, really poor.

I think your twisting things now to suit your own agenda.
If James doesnt sign, I'm sure MR will have a back up plan.

 

[Frostie]

I think your twisting things now to suit your own agenda.
If James doesnt sign, I'm sure MR will have a back up plan.

Eh? What have I twisted?
Sheaf is already a done deal anyway so it's a moot point.

 

[fatso]

Eh? What have I twisted?
Sheaf is already a done deal anyway so it's a moot point.

Possibly a done deal, but If it is, I'd still be very suprised if he starts the first game.

As I've said, he's not a bad player, but I'd rather we invested the money elsewhere,
If we cant, he's a decent enough bench warmer.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Don't forget we are comparing Walsh from League 1 to Sheaf in the Championship. Walsh has never managed to establish himself at this level yet, and I feel Sheaf did. And let's not forget Walsh has hardly played since March 2020.

I like Walsh and would like him back if possible but it is not a definite that he would be good enough in the Championship. Probably but not definite.

Sheaf was ok in an average league One team at Doncaster
Walsh was in the top 3 players, and for many the best player in the team that won the league One that year.
I think that is the standard many are using to compare and people didn't see enough from sheaf last year to convince them otherwise.

Personally I don't want sheaf, maybe he can have a good career in the championship somewhere else but think we can spend the money better elsewhere.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Possibly a done deal, but If it is, I'd still be very suprised if he starts the first game.

As I've said, he's not a bad player, but I'd rather we invested the money elsewhere,
If we cant, he's a decent enough bench warmer.

Why when we desperately need to bolster the midfield?

Kelly is incapable of completing a full season (baring in mind he'll be out until August/September, assuming he doesn't suffer a setback), Eccles is still very raw and very much an unknown talent in the Championship, and it's debatable whether Hamer is even going to be here come September.

 

[fatso]

Why when we desperately need to bolster the midfield?

Kelly is incapable of completing a full season (baring in mind he'll be out until September, assuming he doesn't suffer a setback), Eccles is still very raw and very much an unknown talent in the Championship, and it's debatable whether Hamer is even going to be here come September.

Any idea what MR will do with the Hamer money?
(Or the % he will be given)

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

In terms of statistics I would argue that Sheaf and Matty James had similar stats. I’ve picked some stats I believe are key for their position

more than happy to change stats if people want to see that

 

[JulianDarbyFTW]

I think we forget how young and inexperienced our team was at the start of the season. The vast majority of players playing at the highest level of their careers, learning to play against bigger, better athletes. And Sheaf more than played his part in keeping us up, at the same time as trying to adapt to a new standard of play for a new club. Yes, he plays a few suicide balls here and there, but he was a big cog in the machine for a fair while. Imho, I think he gets a bad rap partly because he has a more languid style than Kelly or Hamer or James, and I think it's unfair. He has real class at times, and bucketloads of potential. Plus 750k is a drop in the ocean in footballing terms nowadays; in fact, it was a drop in the ocean 20 years ago when Arsenal were signing players like a 15 year old Jermain Pennant for 2m.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Can’t compare Sheaf and with Walsh to different type of midfielder and type.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Any idea what MR will do with the Hamer money?
(Or the % he will be given)

How long's a piece of string? It's completely at the discretion of the club/SISU how much Robins receives from sales.

It'll take years to recover from the financial fallout of both the pandemic and the move to St Andrews. How quickly we recover from the fallout will largely depend on how much revenue can be obtained through player sales.

So, how much Robins gets will entirely depend on how much they wish to allocate to paying off the interest from loans/the loans themselves, or the administrative costs of the club - not forgetting the £3.2 m EFL loan as well which is repayable over next three years.

 

[fatso]

I think we forget how young and inexperienced our team was at the start of the season. The vast majority of players playing at the highest level of their careers, learning to play against bigger, better athletes. And Sheaf more than played his part in keeping us up, at the same time as trying to adapt to a new standard of play for a new club. Yes, he plays a few suicide balls here and there, but he was a big cog in the machine for a fair while. Imho, I think he gets a bad rap partly because he has a more languid style than Kelly or Hamer or James, and I think it's unfair. He has real class at times, and bucketloads of potential. Plus 750k is a drop in the ocean in footballing terms nowadays; in fact, it was a drop in the ocean 20 years ago when Arsenal were signing players like a 15 year old Jermain Pennant for 2m.

750k is anything but a drop in the ocean to a club like Coventry. Infact I'd imagine it's a huge percentage of our transfer budget.
If not all of it.

 

[shmmeee]

750k is anything but a drop in the ocean to a club like Coventry. Infact I'd imagine it's a huge percentage of our transfer budget.
If not all of it.

We’ve spent £2m+ the last couple of close seasons.

 

[Frostie]

In terms of statistics I would argue that Sheaf and Matty James had similar stats. I’ve picked some stats I believe are key for their position

more than happy to change stats if people want to see that

Indeed. And compare to Kelly too? I bet Kelly's Pass Completion % is in the 60s?

 

[fatso]

We’ve spent £2m+ the last couple of close seasons.

But now post covid, and with losses of over 3million, the goalposts have moved.



If you know what I mean.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Indeed. And compare to Kelly too? I bet Kelly's Pass Completion % is in the 60s?

65% - I know Stats can be picked and chosen but I felt those are the stats that I would look for when looking at this particular position.

As I said, happy to change stats for people. Sheaf is a good player, but he’s never recovered from the rumours that he didn’t want to come etc

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Indeed. And compare to Kelly too? I bet Kelly's Pass Completion % is in the 60s?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

If you consider him a similar player to Hamer aswell, the stats are good for sheaf there too

 

[Frostie]

28% Long Pass Accuracy

As stated earlier, I love Kelly as much as anyone but we need better in possession.
I don't want my Midfielders aimlessly lumping the ball forward under minimal pressure. Sheaf is an enormous improvement in ball retention.

 

[shmmeee]

You can see there Kelly is who you bring in in a scrap to get blocks and tackles in and lump it away, but you aren’t going to build a footballing team around him.

 

[cc84cov]

@SlowerThanPlatt do you have a life outside this forum your all over it like cheese on a Big Mac go out enjoy the sun,your not alone it’s the same old faces on here these days

 

[fernandopartridge]

That's what I find funny about the criticism against Sheaf.

His critics almost try and claim he was the only player in the team to consistently lose the ball/give it away in dangerous areas.

At the end of the day there must be a bit of acceptance that some players will give the ball away through trying more adventurous passes. Like you say, Sheaf has done, as has Hamer. I remember Liam Walsh did it too.

 

[fernandopartridge]

McFadz is the other main culprit who gives the ball away in dangerous areas and ideally I’d like to drop him to the bench this season if we can find someone better


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He really doesn't, clueless

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

@SlowerThanPlatt do you have a life outside this forum your all over it like cheese on a Big Mac go out enjoy the sun,your not alone it’s the same old faces on here these days

Hamer and Sheaf are probably both spraying balls around the middle as we speak while the internet debate rages on

 

[cc84cov]

Hamer and Sheaf are probably both spraying balls around the middle as we speak while the internet debate rages on

We’ve replaced some decent posters with the same 8 place is dead

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

He really doesn't, clueless

Funnily fans favourite Leo Ostigard lost possession more

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You can see there Kelly is who you bring in in a scrap to get blocks and tackles in and lump it away, but you aren’t going to build a footballing team around him.

Frankly, we look a better team whenever Kelly played. At some point, we need to reduce our reliance on Kelly defensively for someone who can do his job just as well, but sounder on the ball. Earlier on the season, we conceded too many cheap goals with misplaced passes in our own half.

Looking at the stats, the area Sheaf needs to improve on is his interceptions. Ranking behind James, Hamer and Kelly.

For me, the model to follow is a high pressing team who doesn’t leak goals.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Funnily fans favourite Leo Ostigard lost possession more

I was just going to say that. It is strange how he was clearly the worst passer in our defence but rarely criticised for it.

BTW I do like Ostigard but he does have to improve on this if he is to play at a higher level.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was just going to say that. It is strange how he was clearly the worst passer in our defence but rarely criticised for it.

BTW I do like Ostigard but he does have to improve on this if he is to play at a higher level.

That can be coached to be fair. What can't be coached is being able to leap an extra foot in the air

 

[Evo1883]

So

Is he signing ?