European championships 2020 thread (36 Viewers)

[Ccfcisparks]

I guess I'm saying that we've played one game in this tournament, which is way too early to be putting us above anyone really, and if we use history then we're miles away from your Hollands, Spains etc.

Using history as a measure at international level is completely irrelevant because squads are totally different tournament to tournament

 

---

[Evo1883]

Not just a Southgate thing though is it. I went through this with a friend the other day this is our record since beating Argentina in 2002

Beat

Denmark
Croatia x2
Paraguay
Trinidad and Tobago
Ecuador
Slovenia
Ukraine
Sweden x2
Wales
Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Switzerland x2


In that time we’ve lost to
Brazil
France
Portugal x 2
Germany
Italy x2
Uruguay
Iceland
Belgium x2
Croatia
Holland

We don’t beat top tier nations

My point is , we need to to win tournaments.

He's won 3 from about 12 games against what you would regard as top nations .

England need to break that to win tournaments , or get a favourable run in like in 2018 and we still failed to get to the final .

And that doesn't appear to be the way this time if we win the group, we have to beat top sides to win it

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I guess I'm saying that we've played one game in this tournament, which is way too early to be putting us above anyone really, and if we use history then we're miles away from your Hollands, Spains etc.

Holland are a really erratic side, they didn’t qualify for the World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016, yet everyone accepts them as challengers.

 

[COV]

Using history as a measure at international level is completely irrelevant because squads are totally different tournament to tournament

But thats the same for every other team, not just us.

And we are the only major footballing nation on earth to have never got to a final since 1966. Actually is that right? Uruguay & Belgium? But their combined populations are less than London.

Since 1966, finalists of major tournaments (european countries):

Germany x12
Italy x7
France x6
Holland x4
Spain x4
Russia x2
Czech Republic x2
Portugal x2
Yugoslavia x1
Belgium x1
Denmark x1
Greece x1
Croatia x1

We need to win something soon

 

[Evo1883]

Holland are a really erratic side, they didn’t qualify for the World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016, yet everyone accepts them as challengers.

With Virgil they seemed to be on an upward trend , since his injury a bit dodgy at the back.

He's a defender that can actually defend , shock horror in 2021

 

[Evo1883]

But thats the same for every other team, not just us.

And we are the only major footballing nation on earth to have never got to a final since 1966. Actually is that right? Uruguay & Belgium? But their combined populations are less than London.

Do you class Belgium as a major footballing nation ?

Pre 10 years ago they were always or mostly shite

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

With Virgil they seemed to be on an upward trend , since his injury a bit dodgy at the back.

He's a defender that can actually defend , shock horror in 2021

No De Ligt either tonight, the goalkeeper has played about 20 games in the last 5 seasons

 

[Sick Boy]

Do you class Belgium as a major footballing nation ?

Pre 10 years ago they were always or mostly shite

They’re a better side than England now.

 

[Evo1883]

Showing some Dutch greats at the moment .

Team of 88 with Gullit Rijkard and van Basten

 

[covmark]

Not just a Southgate thing though is it. I went through this with a friend the other day this is our record since beating Argentina in 2002

Beat

Denmark
Croatia x2
Paraguay
Trinidad and Tobago
Ecuador
Slovenia
Ukraine
Sweden x2
Wales
Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Switzerland x2


In that time we’ve lost to
Brazil
France
Portugal x 2
Germany
Italy x2
Uruguay
Iceland
Belgium x2
Croatia
Holland

We don’t beat top tier nations

I'm sure we've beat Spain and lost to Spain in that time.

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

 

[Evo1883]

They’re a better side than England now.

Quite possibly yes but I don't class them as a great footballing nation .

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Yeah we beat Spain 3-2 in the Nations League, were 3-0 up after half an hour

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

With Virgil they seemed to be on an upward trend , since his injury a bit dodgy at the back.

He's a defender that can actually defend , shock horror in 2021

Got the dates mixed up, World Cup 2018. Point is I always find that annoying.

I'm sure we've beat Spain and lost to Spain in that time.

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

not since 2002 in a tournament.

 

[covmark]

And we've beat Belgium.
In fact your list is shite

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I'm not going to disagree but let me put it this way.

England have done nothing since 1966- zilch, nothing. Not a single tournament victory, not even a final. No other serious European nation has a record as bad as us, we don't even have any serious rivalry thats reciprocated aside from Scotland. We are not seen as a threat.

So yeah- great result today and I'll be cheering them on all the way, but lets see how it goes before we start saying we've got a fantastic squad- we've seen it all before and its time to deliver now, lets leave the crowing until we can back it up.

This kind of psychology is something that’s held us back as a footballing nation. Spain also had a drought similar to ours before they dominated between 2008-2012.

Most of this group of players have experienced a semi-final at a major tournament, and they’ve gotten the penalty shootout monkey off of our back.

The last generation of England players let us down, this is a new crop of players and the atmosphere around the England camp genuinely seems to be different!

We have a lot of reason to be optimistic whereas between 2012-2018 we were kidding ourselves in believing we could compete with the best.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Liking Nigel de Jong as a pundit.

Better than the dross that was on for the Macedonia game.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Yeah we beat Spain 3-2 in the Nations League, were 3-0 up after half an hour

Depends what you call the tournament part. I was counting the semis and final 4 team part

 

[Evo1883]

Liking Nigel de Jong as a pundit.

Better than the dross that was on for the Macedonia game.

Remember that challenge though

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

And we've beat Belgium.
In fact your list is shite

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk

Again in what tournament since 2002? I’d call the league stage the qualifiers. The 4 team finals part we lost to Holland

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think we’ll win if we get to the semis. Being at Wembley is a massive advantage

the crunch (if we win the group) is that we play France in the quarters - if they win their group obviously.

Talent wise, France are the best team by far. But, if this Mbappe and Giroud bust gets out of hand it could be a concern since they’re in the Group of Death.

It’s a cliche, but we’ve got to play without fear and a bit of ego.

 

[Evo1883]

It's france I worry about playing , In my life I can only ever remember us beating France 2 or 3 times since 84 .

 

[COV]

This kind of psychology is something that’s held us back as a footballing nation. Spain also had a drought similar to ours before they dominated between 2008-2012.

Most of this group of players have experienced a semi-final at a major tournament, and they’ve gotten the penalty shootout monkey off of our back.

The last generation of England players let us down, this is a new crop of players and the atmosphere around the England camp genuinely seems to be different!

We have a lot of reason to be optimistic whereas between 2012-2018 we were kidding ourselves in believing we could compete with the best.

We should have won in 2006, that was our year. We had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole (both of them), Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, Rooney. Thats on Sven for not turning them into a team.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

We should have won in 2006, that was our year. We had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole (both of them), Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, Rooney. Thats on Sven for not turning them into a team.

2002 was the chance. Blew it against Brazil by backing off at 1-0. We’d have beaten Turkey and Germany

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We should have won in 2006, that was our year. We had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole (both of them), Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, Rooney. Thats on Sven for not turning them into a team.

It was criminal we didn’t win 2004

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

It's france I worry about playing , In my life I can only ever remember us beating France 2 or 3 times since 84 .

Portugal dumped us out 2 tournaments on the trot. Snide bastards

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

We should have won in 2006, that was our year. We had Terry, Ferdinand, Cole (both of them), Campbell, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, Rooney. Thats on Sven for not turning them into a team.

Exactly, we couldn’t move away from 4-4-2 and we never really had

Even in 2010, we had one of the best qualification records and had a brilliant team. Ferdinand and Lampard have spoke of the culture in the England camp with that generation. Southgate has put a lot of effort into building a different culture.

Southgate is proving to be a very good international manager even if he is no Pep Guardiola.

 

[Evo1883]

Portugal dumped us out 2 tournaments on the trot. Snide bastards

I've just looked

We've beaten

Italy 2x since 1984
France 3x since 1984
Germany 5x since 1984
Spain 5x since 1984
Holland 2x since 1984

It's not great against Portugal either

 

[Evo1883]

Exactly, we couldn’t move away from 4-4-2 and we never really had

Even in 2010, we had one of the best qualification records and had a brilliant team. Ferdinand and Lampard have spoke of the culture in the England camp with that generation. Southgate has put a lot of effort into building a different culture.

Southgate is proving to be a very good international manager even if he is no Pep Guardiola.

Is he though ? What has he actually achieved .

Is there many England managers in the last 30 years who would have struggled to get us to that semi final in 2018 with those players and that draw ?

The route was almost too easy

He gets way too much credit for that , and not enough stick for his tactical fuck ups against Croatia and then Holland in the nations league

We lost 3 matches in the 2018 world Cup , we were bang average

 

[PurpleBin]

Holland, Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina all seem to have an identity. They've all stuck to the same type of principles over years and years. We're never quite sure on what we want to be. You always know what you're going to get with the above mentioned teams. Sure they might go through phases where it doesn't come off but generally, they do alright. Spain maybe more a modern day, last 15 years genuine top side.

Also our youth, grassroots leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Evo1883]

I must be honest, I find Southgates England to be quite boring to watch, he's slowly moulded us into his image and it's often frustrating.

If he fails this tournament we have to move him on

 

[Sick Boy]

I must be honest, I find Southgates England to be quite boring to watch, he's slowly moulded us into his image and it's often frustrating.

If he fails this tournament we have to move him on

Who would you get in who’d be capable?

 

[Evo1883]

Who would you get in who’d be capable?

To be honest I've not thought about it at all .
So I wouldnt be able to give you an answer off the cuff.

There are many many many managers out there better than Gareth Southgate

Marco Rose would have been a good choice from gladbach until he signed on at dortmund , I'm not arsed about where out manager is from

Aggressive high press style

 

[oscillatewildly]

Does Rupert take the Andrex into the forest?

Does Rupert take the Andrex into the forest?

Kinell mate, no need to get craptic.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Who would you get in who’d be capable?

In a few years, and perhaps not as bonkers as it seems, Stevie G

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Is he though ? What has he actually achieved .

Is there many England managers in the last 30 years who would have struggled to get us to that semi final in 2018 with those players and that draw ?

The route was almost too easy

He gets way too much credit for that , and not enough stick for his tactical fuck ups against Croatia and then Holland in the nations league

We lost 3 matches in the 2018 world Cup , we were bang average

We’ve got to two semi-finals under Southgate. First time since 1996. Even something as small as winning the first Euros game ever. All this stuff build momentum.

We lost twice to a star-studded Belgium side who were one of the favourites to win the whole thing. Had the beaten France, they’d have won it all.

It wasn’t a particularly difficult run in, but we beat the winner of Germany’s group and even had we played Germany, I have no doubt in my mind we’d have beaten them. They looked like we did in 2010.

Luka Modric won the Ballon D’or for taking Croatia to the final, beating Denmark, Russia and ourselves en route to the final...

Southgate’s achievement in 2018 is not something to be discredited at all.