Hats off Andy Thorn (5 Viewers)

[Grendel]

If you have a brain, judge a manager on the resources given to him; don't pretend that Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho etc are magicians that would get a team of children to win promotion if they were at City.

And if you had a brain you would acknowledge experience and talent in all walks of life has a positive impact on performance. If it didn't why employ managers at all. Just let one of the fans have ago. In our case it may have been a better option.

 

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[Grendel]

You can't just gloss over losing that number of players and pretend Andy Thorn should cope.

Let's take Man Utd as an example:

If they announce today that money is tight due to the debt they're in, and that 9 first team players have to leave, including Vidic, Rooney, Ashley Young, Scholes, Phil Jones etc - where would you expect them to finish this season? It's ok, they can bring in some children - er i'm sure that'd work...

Would this make Alex Ferguson a bad Manager? Would it?

Yep ferguson never could win anything with a bunch of kids.

 

[lordsummerisle]

You and I have differing opinions on why the strategy didn't work. We've been over that one ad nausea!

I've yet to see any concrete evidence that he did loan money to Cardiff. I'm sure you'd be more than willing to provide me with some...

You really don't look very hard, or just keep your eyes shut don't you? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/02/football-league-cardiff-city-mortgage Strangely, not long after the Football League started investigating him, he resigned. Just another hedge-fund wanker like Sisu.

 

[@richh87]

Yep ferguson never could win anything with a bunch of kids.

Kids that are ready yes - Beckham etc were ready; not thrown in because half the first team f*cked off.

 

[sw88]

Morning Rich. Good to see your in a good mood

 

[Jim]

He also is the manager who got us relegated to the lowest league position in half a century - kind of throws a spanner into your logic doesn't it?

No!

SISU are the financial backers who got us relegated to the lowest league position in half a century by destroying an already mediocre team.

Thorn was the man stuck in the middle trying to do a job in next to impossible circumstances.

 

[Grendel]

No!

SISU are the financial backers who got us relegated to the lowest league position in half a century by destroying an already mediocre team.

Thorn was the man stuck in the middle trying to do a job in next to impossible circumstances.

An already mediocre team? You're right we should sack the scout instead.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

You really don't look very hard, or just keep your eyes shut don't you? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/02/football-league-cardiff-city-mortgage Strangely, not long after the Football League started investigating him, he resigned. Just another hedge-fund wanker like Sisu.

So I take it the investigation was concluded and he was found guilty then?

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Grendel lives in his own world where context doesn't exist.

That table he provided showing Thorn in comparison to a whole host of managers from different leagues was a highlight.

 

[Grendel]

So I take it the investigation was concluded and he was found guilty then?

Give it a rest. Even if he was you'd say it was a fit up yet you state we were going to sign 3 players best of one article by someone who had left and wanted back in again alongside someone who had an interest in the paper where the article appeared.

 

[Grendel]

Grendel lives in his own world where context doesn't exist.

That table he provided showing Thorn in comparison to a whole host of managers from different leagues was a highlight.

They are the managers in league 1. Or would you prefer to look at the championship or any league you choose.

 

[lordsummerisle]

So I take it the investigation was concluded and he was found guilty then?

I expect that it was probably dropped when he "resigned", though don't recall seeing any denials anywhere.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I expect that it was probably dropped when he "resigned", though don't recall seeing any denials anywhere.

How about this one?
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...-no-influence-at-cardiff-city-92746-28273635/

Ranson said today: "I am not the of owner Sports Asset Capital and it is not a hedge fund, as has been reported. Neither I nor Sports Asset Capital have ever lent or given money to Cardiff City Football Club and I have absolutely no influence whatsoever over the transfer policy or any other matters at Cardiff City – I have enough on my plate at Coventry City.

"If requested, I am happy to assist with any inquiry by the Football League with regards to this matter."


We've heard nothing about it since then...

Sir William Garrow's famous phrase "innocent until proven guilty" springs to mind.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

They are the managers in league 1. Or would you prefer to look at the championship or any league you choose.

So you've compared his record in a higher league to those of others in a lower league. Bravo. :claping hands:

 

[Grendel]

How about this one?
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...-no-influence-at-cardiff-city-92746-28273635/

Ranson said today: "I am not the of owner Sports Asset Capital and it is not a hedge fund, as has been reported. Neither I nor Sports Asset Capital have ever lent or given money to Cardiff City Football Club and I have absolutely no influence whatsoever over the transfer policy or any other matters at Cardiff City – I have enough on my plate at Coventry City.

"If requested, I am happy to assist with any inquiry by the Football League with regards to this matter."


We've heard nothing about it since then...

Sir William Garrow's famous phrase "innocent until proven guilty" springs to mind.

Why did he resign shortly after then!

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Why did he resign shortly after then!

:laugh: ...and the hilarity continues.

Are you now claiming that his resignation from CCFC had nothing to do with the situation at the club?

 

[Grendel]

:laugh: ...and the hilarity continues.

Are you now claiming that his resignation from CCFC had nothing to do with the situation at the club?

The hilarity only exists because of your single minded one man campaign to support ranson. What situation. The one where ranson kept employing one useless clown after another, losing money every season and continued decline on the pitch. Any owner with a keen interest would have shown him the door months before.

 

[lordsummerisle]

How about this one?
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...-no-influence-at-cardiff-city-92746-28273635/

Ranson said today: "I am not the of owner Sports Asset Capital and it is not a hedge fund, as has been reported. Neither I nor Sports Asset Capital have ever lent or given money to Cardiff City Football Club and I have absolutely no influence whatsoever over the transfer policy or any other matters at Cardiff City – I have enough on my plate at Coventry City.

"If requested, I am happy to assist with any inquiry by the Football League with regards to this matter."


We've heard nothing about it since then...

Sir William Garrow's famous phrase "innocent until proven guilty" springs to mind.

It seemed to be his company when he was promoting it.. http://www.director.co.uk/MAGAZINE/2006/10 Oct/footone_60_3.html

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Here is the win ratio of all League One managers;


Paulo Di Caneo 62.1
Graham Westley 50.2
Karl Robinson 48.2
Graham Turner 41.4
Gary Johnson 41.4
Gary Smith 39.7
Richard Barker 37.9
John Ward 37.6
Dean Saunders 36.9
Greg Abbott 36.3
Kieth Curle 35.8
Russell Slade 35.6
Andy Knill 34.8
Paul Dickov 30.4
Danny Wilson 30.4
Dean Smith 24.4
Michael Appleton23.5
Andy Thorn 20.8

Cant find stats for Rosler (but 67 points in a season) or Neale Cooper (got Hartlepool to play offs) and 2 clubs no manager.

So Thorn is bottom.

Told you so.

How many games have the majority of those managers had at L1 level, and Championship level? 100% of AT's have been at Championship level: 100% of your man at the tops have been at L2 level. So, no, not "told you so": you have chosen massively flawed data to make your case.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Good luck with this NLHWC.

We're going round in circles again so I'll think I'll just leave them to it. :wave:

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Best policy, but you can't not point out the errors in posts like the "Managers League Table". As someone, possibly you, said, if you do a table on Championship record, Saunders is below AT anyway!

 

[Grendel]

Best policy, but you can't not point out the errors in posts like the "Managers League Table". As someone, possibly you, said, if you do a table on Championship record, Saunders is below AT anyway!

No he isn't they both have 20%

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ranson: 'I guarantee Coventry fans one thing: Keiren Westwood will not be leaving this club for nothing.'

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Surely the ambition of this thread was to assess how well Thorn has done with regards attracting players within very tight constraints this close-season?

Why therefore does it invariably spiral downhill onto a discussion relating to last seasons results, and supporting statistics thrown without context. Should you do desire, every single thread could be skewed into discussing this, as it's been done a thousand times already?

Unless some posters never want to move on, never want to wipe the slate clean, never will be prepared to leave the past where it belongs - and therefore earn the tag of Thorn-hater. As its surely deserved?

 

[johnwillomagic]

I think the main problem in the thread is the opening title "hats off to Andy Thorn"!

On face value he has achieved nothing in his managerial career except relegation in the season and a half he has been in charge.
As I have stated players will go and newplayers have come in......how much of this is down to Thorn and how much is down to Waggott is open to debate?
Regardless of who is responsible we have no idea of how good these players will be yet as we are not in full blown league 1 competition.

Therefore I see no logical reason for anyone to doff their cap for Thorn looking at his achievements and actual managerial career to date.

However as he has kept his job we need to forget the past and focus on the future and get fully behind the boys. IMO Thorn should not still be here but he is and I think we owe it to him to give him at least 10-12 games. If we are doing poorly he has to go simple as that......however I am hoping that we will get off to a decent start this year!

My cap will come off to Andy only if he gets us promoted this year via automatic or play off means....hat will stay firmly on head at anything less anything else based on facts is ludicros!

 

[johnwillomagic]

Hats off to Thorn for losing to Nuneaton!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Hats off to Thorn for losing to Nuneaton!

If we're going to have to do that everytime we lose I'm going to buy a local millinery.

 

[@richh87]

Newcastle lost pretty much all their friendlies the season they won the Championship.

Next.

 

[Grendel]

Newcastle lost pretty much all their friendlies the season they won the Championship.

Next.

Did we win all ours last season then?

 

[craigSKYBLUE]

Did we win all ours last season then?

No but we didnt lose 6-1 to leyton orient..either way you get what hes saying

 

[johnwillomagic]

The point I was making is this thread should have been padlocked straight away for the title alone. As usual I make a very valid argument about why we should not doff our cap to Thorn and no hats off person responds when presented with the acts....funny that!

Perosnally I do not hold too much stock with pre-season friendlies......however losing to non-league oppo no matter how you dresss it up is never good! Let's see how we do in next couple of weeks!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Wow I succumb to your powers of intellectual argument.

You make some useful points at times & provide useful facts at other...& other times you come across as an annoying, negative, snide, supercilious, arrogant know-all.
We're all aware we're in a dire state & have been for a while. AT, SISU, all SB fans want success. All of us have limitations too. We might benefit from management consistency letting AT & SISU learn from the past...rather than swapping managers every 1.5-2yrs.
All we fans can do is get behind what we've got - SO LETS DO SO

 

[CUS Wyken]

This is why I don't bother on here much now.

You lot are proper fickle.

After the the two 'massive' wins everyone was saying what a team etc..... Now we've lost and not scoring everyone saying friendlies don't matter.

So when we're winning we're world beaters. When we lose it's alright it's only friendlies.

 

[WillieStanley]

This is why I don't bother on here much now.

You lot are proper fickle.

After the the two 'massive' wins everyone was saying what a team etc..... Now we've lost and not scoring everyone saying friendlies don't matter.

So when we're winning we're world beaters. When we lose it's alright it's only friendlies.

People just use events to justify their own agenda. When we were winning, there were a fair amount of those maintaining that the results of friendlies don't matter.

I always try and remain nuetral at this point in the season. This is one of the few pre-seasons where I haven't been to any friendlies. For that reason, I have no view point on the matches themselves, other than the fact that results really don't count for anything. I was hoping we'd go on an unbeaten run that we could carry through to the matches that count, but hey-ho!!

 

[Grendel]

You make some useful points at times & provide useful facts at other...& other times you come across as an annoying, negative, snide, supercilious, arrogant know-allO

How have you managed to access my employment records? This sounds like my work appraisal.