Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (20 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Using Bidens logic from his speech this evening .

We could and should have left 10/15 years ago .

Ah well can't say no more

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Our response should have been to never get involved. It’s unfortunate for the Afghans but let’s not kid ourselves. The Chinese persecution of the Muslim community borders on genocide and we all turn a blind eye. This is a geographically unfortunate country - if we had never been involved - and we should never have been - we’ve lost wars in this hell hole for centuries - we’d be absolved from faux human rights Objections who now think more should go to war and die - let it go and let nature take its course - or invade China and Russia and not be selective on who we care about and who we don’t

I think on balance that is the sad reality

 

[clint van damme]

Using Bidens logic from his speech this evening .

We could and should have left 10/15 years ago .

Ah well can't say no more

Also using his logic America should never have reneged on.promises they made to the Kurds,(on more than one occasion).

He was also very disingenuous about the losses the Afghani people have incurred, you'd think it was only Americans that have suffered over there, not the locals and other allied countries.

 

[Ian1779]

so do I buy the ship has sailed. What is the solution - allow more troops to die for another 20 years - it’s gone and the whole of NATO supported this occupation

No idea what the solution is to be honest.

 

[JAM See]

No idea what the solution is to be honest.

It's the bit that holds the precipitate.

 

[shmmeee]

I doubt most Americans will still even remember this by the midterms, let alone the next presidential election.

This. Everything I’m seeing from people in the states is very “we shouldn’t be there, can’t stay forever, up to them to fight for their country”. I’d be surprised if it affects gis politically long term.

 

[David O'Day]

Don't think so

sadly he pitched his speech perfectly for most americans

 

[David O'Day]

No idea what the solution is to be honest.

what chance do you have when the Afghan Army folds without a fight

 

[David O'Day]

what chance do you have if this happens

Afghan Cease-Fire Deal Struck in Doha Collapsed After Ghani Fled

The weeks leading up to Kabul’s collapse saw a flurry of diplomatic activity by the U.S. and its allies in Qatar aimed at heading off exactly the chaotic scenes in the Afghan capital that have so horrified the world and put Joe Biden’s presidency on the defensive.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Even CNN turning on Biden now. He's done.

CNN does not represent mainstream public opinion over there.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I don’t think any foreign powers feared Trump mate. NK/Russia/China all bold as brass during his presidency. He was an isolationist, why would they fear him?

Last four presidents all to blame, trying to blame one or two just partisan politics TBH. Started by Bush, continued by Obama, fucked up by Trump and Biden. Whatever bit of the political spectrum you reside on there’s some blame for you there.

I think they both feared and laughed at him in equal measure. They thought he was stupid but anyone that unpredictable and unable to take criticism of any kind is a potential danger.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No idea what the solution is to be honest.

If they want acceptance by the international community and not to be a North Korea-esque pariah state then they will have to give some ground. We cannot and should not go invading every country that's run in a way of which we disapprove

 

[David O'Day]

come 2022 for better or worse these are the things that get remembered

 

[JAM See]

come 2022 for better or worse these are the things that get remembered

I really hope so. Unfortunately, I know people who see this type of policy as pandering to the lazy.

This is of course not true, but I have personal experience of 'mates' who think that the people who use foodbanks are 'playing the system'.

The sad fact is that people who use foodbanks are less likely to vote anyway, which is what the Tories/Republicans count on.

Bring on PR and compulsory voting.

 

[oakey]

Is the West finished as a self defined progressive force? Certainly the West's foreign policy post WW2 seems over.
What happens now? God only knows but we need leaders with vision and we don't appear to have any.
I fear that with all the threats facing us we may be heading for a rather rapid decline into a chaotic future.

 

[skybluetony176]

I see Trump is trying to rewrite history again calling for Biden to resign over pulling out of Afghanistan. In the interest of balance it was Trump that signed a deal with the Taliban that all US troops would have been out of Afghanistan by May of this year. Clearly Biden has pulled all the troops and critically air support to quickly but the fact is that under Trump this would have happened 3 months ago.

 

[skybluetony176]

Is the West finished as a self defined progressive force? Certainly the West's foreign policy post WW2 seems over.
What happens now? God only knows but we need leaders with vision and we don't appear to have any.
I fear that with all the threats facing us we may be heading for a rather rapid decline into a chaotic future.

I think the only given at the moment is that it’s only going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[skybluetony176]

Also worth pointing out that two thirds of American voters support bringing all troops home from both Afghanistan and Iraq. So don’t be surprised if Iraq follows. Maybe not before the Mid Terms or the next general election but unless the US voters change tact on this it’s potentially a vote winner.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Also worth pointing out that two thirds of American voters support bringing all troops home from both Afghanistan and Iraq. So don’t be surprised if Iraq follows. Maybe not before the Mid Terms or the next general election but unless the US voters change tact on this it’s potentially a vote winner.

Progressive policy in being popular shocker

 

[David O'Day]

Is the West finished as a self defined progressive force? Certainly the West's foreign policy post WW2 seems over.
What happens now? God only knows but we need leaders with vision and we don't appear to have any.
I fear that with all the threats facing us we may be heading for a rather rapid decline into a chaotic future.

that was the brutal reality of bidens speech

The days of regime change seem to be over

 

[JAM See]

Is the West finished as a self defined progressive force? Certainly the West's foreign policy post WW2 seems over.
What happens now? God only knows but we need leaders with vision and we don't appear to have any.
I fear that with all the threats facing us we may be heading for a rather rapid decline into a chaotic future.

In answer to your first question. No.

In answer to your second question.
The Daily Mail will report a rise in house prices due to increased immigration from Afghanistan.
The Daily Express will claim that Diana foretold all this.
The Sun will print what suits Murdoch's business interests.
The Daily Telegraph will discuss the effect on the stock market.
The Mirror will prevaricate.
the guardian will do an in depth analysis of the hardship caused to the LGBTQ+I community.

The Coventry Telegraph will run a piece about how the thirteenth ever customers of Fishy Moore's were related to somebody who's great, great granddad served in the army in 1842 and knew somebody who was related to a person who's nephew was actually in Afghanistan (or something)

Plus ca change.

 

[shmmeee]

I think they both feared and laughed at him in equal measure. They thought he was stupid but anyone that unpredictable and unable to take criticism of any kind is a potential danger.

They all learned how to play him early on: lots of praise, make him think it was his idea and doing it will make him very popular and smart.

There’s a reason Russia wanted him installed (note: this is not saying Russia got him elected, just that he was their preferred outcome).

 

[David O'Day]

For anyone spouting nonsense that this will hurt Biden

 

[Liquid Gold]

I don't really give a shit if this is on Biden or Trump or whoever at the minute.

This is a massive tragedy and we should be doing whatever we can to get whoever wants to get out of there out. No we shouldn't have done it the first place, no we shouldn't have been there that long but now we have a duty of care for anybody who assisted us and will now be in danger because of that.

We've spent far too long electing people who give a shit about how this plays in the media or the polls and not people that will genuinely do the right thing. The whole bunch of them can fuck off.

 

[David O'Day]

I don't really give a shit if this is on Biden or Trump or whoever at the minute.

This is a massive tragedy and we should be doing whatever we can to get whoever wants to get out of there out. No we shouldn't have done it the first place, no we shouldn't have been there that long but now we have a duty of care for anybody who assisted us and will now be in danger because of that.

We've spent far too long electing people who give a shit about how this plays in the media or the polls and not people that will genuinely do the right thing. The whole bunch of them can fuck off.

That is the plan though as per his speech?

 

[robbiekeane]

Our response should have been to never get involved. It’s unfortunate for the Afghans but let’s not kid ourselves. The Chinese persecution of the Muslim community borders on genocide and we all turn a blind eye. This is a geographically unfortunate country - if we had never been involved - and we should never have been - we’ve lost wars in this hell hole for centuries - we’d be absolved from faux human rights Objections who now think more should go to war and die - let it go and let nature take its course - or invade China and Russia and not be selective on who we care about and who we don’t

Yeh I’d agree with that. What about the US…what other option did they have to go to war? Again genuine question

 

[Otis]

Anyone explain why nearly everyone fleeing in this photo, is a man, when clearly it is going to be women most at risk from Taliban rule?

 

[Ian1779]

If they want acceptance by the international community and not to be a North Korea-esque pariah state then they will have to give some ground. We cannot and should not go invading every country that's run in a way of which we disapprove

The UK needs to take its responsibility in terms of providing safe haven for refugees as a result of their actions.

 

[SBAndy]

Anyone explain why nearly everyone fleeing in this photo, is a man, when clearly it is going to be women most at risk from Taliban rule?

Merely a theory, but I’d expect that due to prevailing culture over there, Afghan men would have been more likely to have been assisting allied forces?

 

[Otis]

Merely a theory, but I’d expect that due to prevailing culture over there, Afghan men would have been more likely to have been assisting allied forces?

Wouldn't the Taliban be just as likely though to kill any relatives they found to be of an Afghani armed force officer?

 

[Otis]

The UK needs to take its responsibility in terms of providing safe haven for refugees as a result of their actions.

We both know the counter-argument that will be put forward there though don't we, that we will be letting some terrorists in.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We both know the counter-argument that will be put forward there though don't we, that we will be letting some terrorists in.

There should be some kind of vetting so you aren’t letting criminals in but yes we should offer some asylum in principle. Just as we should be doing so for those wanting refuge from other extremist states like Saudi whom we have allied ourselves with

 

[David O'Day]

Wouldn't the Taliban be just as likely though to kill any relatives they found to be of an Afghani armed force officer?

No, they are currently about to go on a PR drive. As has been said already they do not want to be a North Korea style pariah state back only by the the head wobblers in Russia and China. They need to try and convince the west to deal with them.

You see them attempt to convince the west that they are someone they can work with.

 

[shmmeee]

Anyone explain why nearly everyone fleeing in this photo, is a man, when clearly it is going to be women most at risk from Taliban rule?

View attachment 21424

Id expect same reason most refugees are men: more likely to survive the trip, and earn money to send back.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I doubt most Americans will still even remember this by the midterms, let alone the next presidential election.

Yeah, I was reading over the weekend it’s one of the reasons Biden accelerated things recently ie well ahead of the midterms so it’s forgotten. I don’t think he expected this though

I’ve avoided the thread as it’s such a complex area. It’s difficult to find a 100% right or wrong in it all

I agree with a majority though, we should never have gone in, the objectives and end outcome were muddled at best. Just a message to Evo though (and your ex colleagues) it wasn’t a waste. We’ve had a decent period of lessened terrorism in the West and also many people in Afghanistan (especially women) were able to live more freely than they’ve ever done for a number of years.

It’s not ended how anyone would’ve wanted, a massive understatement I know ! it’s a fucking mess, but the efforts you all put in hopefully gave the Afghans a glimmer of what freedoms they could have. Whether enough of them currently want it enough, who knows, until then best we stay out of it other than take our fair share of refugees and Afghans at risk of persecution…I fear it might be too late for many though