Do you want to discuss boring politics? (25 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I would say the detail will be important but sadly the last few years have shown that few people are bothered about detail so it will come down to if they can convince people they can deliver on what they are saying.

Detail is a bad idea three years from an election. It ties you to specifics that can change massively before election time. This period is about messaging and general public perception. Generally political messaging isn’t for the people in this thread, and it takes a lot of repetition over time to get through to the normies who aren’t following politics.

Starmer himself is a worry, but the tactics are pretty much spot on for what Labour need to be doing IMO.

 

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[Evo1883]

Im going to hazard a guess at the ones which have left , and say they are of no real loss at all.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm going to hazard a guess at the ones which have left , and say they are of no real loss at all

Standard after a leadership competition. Same happened under Corbyn.

 

[Evo1883]

No matter what , its still in my best interest to vote for Labour..

Go off on your way and join the northern independence Party, join the greens , join the lib dems , or whatever fringe left wing warrior group you choose ...

But please , do not moan when the tories win again ....SIMPLE

 

[shmmeee]

No matter what , its still in my best interest to vote for Labour..

Go off on your way and join the northern independence Party, join the greens , join the lib dems , or whatever fringe left wing warrior group you choose ...

But please , do not moan when the tories win again ....SIMPLE

Pretty much.

 

[Evo1883]

Excellent argument for Scottish independence (I know I know brexit )

This is on the same page as blue passports though right?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Looks pretty good to me. Focuses on voters main concerns over Labour (tax and spend). Not sure what more you want.

I agree. It’s also short and snappy messaging which has proven to be effective with voters

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree. It’s also short and snappy messaging which has proven to be effective with voters

It needs to be condensed into 3 words

 

[fernandopartridge]

Looks pretty good to me. Focuses on voters main concerns over Labour (tax and spend). Not sure what more you want.

What does it even mean? Why are Labour trying to play in the Tories' natural space? Why aren't they using this war like event (covid) to come up with some postwar like solutions?

Why would I vote for Labour if they're just promising the same thing as the Tories?

 

[shmmeee]

What does it even mean? Why are Labour trying to play in the Tories' natural space? Why aren't they using this war like event (covid) to come up with some postwar like solutions?

Why would I vote for Labour if they're just promising the same thing as the Tories?

It means “we can be trusted not to tax you loads and spend on everything like we know you’re worried we will do”

Because we need to win votes from the Tories.

Because most people don’t see Covid as some massive even but a public health crisis to be managed then moved on from.

Because they’re more competent and less nasty.


Your problem is looking at it as a lefty. Most people aren’t lefties. Of course the messaging isn’t for you.

Was Cameron wrong to hug a hoodie and waffle about climate change when the Tories were seen as evil and anti-science? Was Johnson wrong to promise public service spending and investment in towns? No, that’s how elections are won: from the centre.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It means “we can be trusted not to tax you loads and spend on everything like we know you’re worried we will do”

Because we need to win votes from the Tories.

Because most people don’t see Covid as some massive even but a public health crisis to be managed then moved on from.

Because they’re more competent and less nasty.


Your problem is looking at it as a lefty. Most people aren’t lefties. Of course the messaging isn’t for you.

Was Cameron wrong to hug a hoodie and waffle about climate change when the Tories were seen as evil and anti-science? Was Johnson wrong to promise public service spending and investment in towns? No, that’s how elections are won: from the centre.

That worked perfectly in 2010 and 2015 didn't it?

 

[shmmeee]

That worked perfectly in 2010 and 2015 didn't it?

It did for the Tories.

Do I really need to point to 2017 and 2019 for evidence against the navel gazing strategy you propose?

 

[PVA]

It needs to be condensed into 3 words

Fuck the Tories?

Boris hates you?

 

[fernandopartridge]

It did for the Tories.

Do I really need to point to 2017 and 2019 for evidence against the navel gazing strategy you propose?

Do you seriously believe that another 2015 pitch in 2017 or 2019 would have resulted in a different outcome?

 

[Grendel]

It did for the Tories.

Do I really need to point to 2017 and 2019 for evidence against the navel gazing strategy you propose?

2017 had the highest Labour vote for a long time. May was IDS in a skirt. There for the taking and to be honest if McDonnell was leader they may have had the highest vote share.

 

[Ian1779]

It did for the Tories.

Do I really need to point to 2017 and 2019 for evidence against the navel gazing strategy you propose?

As supposed to pointing to 1997 and thinking that world is still relevant?

 

[shmmeee]

As supposed to pointing to 1997 and thinking that world is still relevant?

Electoral maths is always relevant. Most people aren’t far left so appealing to the far left won’t win.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Electoral maths is always relevant. Most people aren’t far left so appealing to the far left won’t win.

Yeah I mean Labour only need to flip over 120 seats pretty much exclusively in England.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

What does it even mean? Why are Labour trying to play in the Tories' natural space? Why aren't they using this war like event (covid) to come up with some postwar like solutions?

Why would I vote for Labour if they're just promising the same thing as the Tories?

Where do I start? Because they are not so obviously incompetent. Labour might not be great but they would not be so ruinously bad for the country as this Government.

Personally I think it is quite clear what it means.

Nearly 140k dead from covid, terrible trade deals, abandoning people who supported us in Afghanistan to the Taliban, how much worse does it need to be?

But hey let's keep going on about deficiencies of Labour rather than the dreadful Government.

 

[Ian1779]

Electoral maths is always relevant. Most people aren’t far left so appealing to the far left won’t win.

No one is saying they will. And as you say, electoral maths is relevant - even more so that Scotland is gone for good as far as Labour is concerned. So how is it going to make all the gains it needs… by re-harnessing all their best hits from 97 in a world that now needs something more? Every single metric of prosperity is declining for the vast majority of the people in this country…

 

[Grendel]

As supposed to pointing to 1997 and thinking that world is still relevant?

you honestly think I blair and brown were starting now they wouldn’t have a million times better chance of success than the idiots who have followed?

 

[wingy]

Bang em incessantly until they stop bankrupting apartment owner's changing the cladding.
Bang em incessantly until every Windrush victim recieves their compo .
Bang em on the Grenfell inquiry.
Bang em on Afghanistan.
Bang em on the committee report regards Rona response and don't stop.

 

[Ian1779]

Where do I start? Because they are not so obviously incompetent. Labour might not be great but they would not be so ruinously bad for the country as this Government.

Personally I think it is quite clear what it means.

Nearly 140k dead from covid, terrible trade deals, abandoning people who supported us in Afghanistan to the Taliban, how much worse does it need to be?

But hey let's keep going on about deficiencies of Labour rather than the dreadful Government.

Again - calling Starmer out for being fucking hopeless is not an endorsement of the Tories. His job is to offer an alternative so people have a choice… he’s failing in every single aspect of this.

 

[JAM See]

It needs to be condensed into 3 words

'Tax is Good'

It'll never catch on. But people who go to the doctor's, drive on roads, have a midwife deliver their children, see the children go to junior school, see the children go to big school, have their shit disappear somewhere every time they have a poo need to realise that this costs money and creates jobs.

They need to realise that paying tax is a GOOD THING.

Paying tax is what any grown up should be happy to do.

 

[Ian1779]

you honestly think I blair and brown were starting now they wouldn’t have a million times better chance of success than the idiots who have followed?

If you are asking me if Blair/Brown were looking at today’s landscape would they been savvy enough to know they needed to do more?
Probably yes

 

[fernandopartridge]

Where do I start? Because they are not so obviously incompetent. Labour might not be great but they would not be so ruinously bad for the country as this Government.

Personally I think it is quite clear what it means.

Nearly 140k dead from covid, terrible trade deals, abandoning people who supported us in Afghanistan to the Taliban, how much worse does it need to be?

But hey let's keep going on about deficiencies of Labour rather than the dreadful Government.

Have you ever read any of my other posts about politics?

 

[Grendel]

Again - calling Starmer out for being fucking hopeless is not an endorsement of the Tories. His job is to offer an alternative so people have a choice… he’s failing in every single aspect of this.

but most people don’t want your vision - they don’t want it

 

[fernandopartridge]

'Tax is Good'

It'll never catch on. But people who go to the doctor's, drive on roads, have a midwife deliver their children, see the children go to junior school, see the children go to big school, have their shit disappear somewhere every time they have a poo need to realise that this costs money and creates jobs.

They need to realise that paying tax is a GOOD THING.

Paying tax is what any grown up should be happy to do.

Tax doesn't actually pay for any of those things and it's really time to make that clear. The issue with the concept of taxpayer's money is that it sets an artificial limit on spending that just does not need to be there.

 

[Grendel]

If you are asking me if Blair/Brown were looking at today’s landscape would they been savvy enough to know they needed to do more?
Probably yes

most people want aspiration and to grow their personal wealth

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

'Tax is Good'

It'll never catch on. But people who go to the doctor's, drive on roads, have a midwife deliver their children, see the children go to junior school, see the children go to big school, have their shit disappear somewhere every time they have a poo need to realise that this costs money and creates jobs.

They need to realise that paying tax is a GOOD THING.

Paying tax is what any grown up should be happy to do.

The Tories I know are still busy criticising the proposed minimum wage increase and calling Labour full of 'wokeys' so they'll never vote for them. To which the reply 'a higher minimum wage reduces the benefit bill' was met with 'yeah but you'll put people out of business' despite vast and overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The evidence was then dismissed as 'left wing economists' opinion'.

These people will never be convinced

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

most people want aspiration and to grow their personal wealth

Funny because when we discussed substantive and progressive ways you could put more cash in people's pockets you said that nobody cares about policy so it doesn't matter

 

[Grendel]

Funny because when we discussed substantive and progressive ways you could put more cash in people's pockets you said that nobody cares about policy so it doesn't matter

it doesn’t but it’s the perception who is most likely to deliver that. Dinosaurs like Rayner and Mcloskey are turn offs to the vast majority of the country

 

[wingy]

most people want aspiration and to grow their personal wealth

So labour need to watch and hope enough people feel the pain from interest hikes really.
Or further tax hikes come around from all the spending.

 

[Ian1779]

most people want aspiration and to grow their personal wealth

The young people of the future can aspire to pay off someone else’s mortgage.

Joy unconfined.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Again - calling Starmer out for being fucking hopeless is not an endorsement of the Tories. His job is to offer an alternative so people have a choice… he’s failing in every single aspect of this.

And that's a bigger issue than posting out the dreadful record of this Government? Any Labour, or non Tory, leader will always have a much harder task to get the right message over because of the media that we have in this country. Milliband lost the election for eating a bacon sandwich yet this Government fail us every day with so little scrutiny from the media.

But you carry on attacking Starmer mate rather than the real villans if you want to.