Do you want to discuss boring politics? (232 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

And that's a bigger issue than posting out the dreadful record of this Government? Any Labour, or non Tory, leader will always have a much harder task to get the right message over because of the media that we have in this country. Milliband lost the election for eating a bacon sandwich yet this Government fail us every day with so little scrutiny from the media.

But you carry on attacking Starmer mate rather than the real villans if you want to.

I spend far more time criticising the awful Tories than I do Starmer… you don’t see it here.

 

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[Deleted member 9744]

Have you ever read any of my other posts about politics?

Yes I am aware of your views and they are good ones in my opinion. That's why I wish you would criticise those who are the real problem more than Starmer.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

it doesn’t but it’s the perception who is most likely to deliver that. Dinosaurs like Rayner and Mcloskey are turn offs to the vast majority of the country

Does the average person care about anyone except the leader?

 

[JAM See]

Tax doesn't actually pay for any of those things and it's really time to make that clear. The issue with the concept of taxpayer's money is that it sets an artificial limit on spending that just does not need to be there.

I'm somewhat confused. What does pay for teacher's, doctor's, copper's etc. salaries if it's not tax?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm somewhat confused. What does pay for teacher's, doctor's, copper's etc. salaries if it's not tax?

Well by net spend it's borrowed money

 

[shmmeee]

No one is saying they will. And as you say, electoral maths is relevant - even more so that Scotland is gone for good as far as Labour is concerned. So how is it going to make all the gains it needs… by re-harnessing all their best hits from 97 in a world that now needs something more? Every single metric of prosperity is declining for the vast majority of the people in this country…

I’m not sure why appealing to voters is “re-harnessing all their best hits from 97” and not just “how to get elected 101” TBH. Voter concerns aren’t identical to 1997, but the tactic of talking to voters about their concerns is timeless. Post Corbyn voter concerns are we’ll spend shit loads and tax the crap out of them.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm somewhat confused. What does pay for teacher's, doctor's, copper's etc. salaries if it's not tax?

Money.

Govenrment creates money.

Too much money and you get inflation, so you use tax to destroy it (and nudge behaviour)

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah I mean Labour only need to flip over 120 seats pretty much exclusively in England.

So you think they should be even more centrist?

 

[JAM See]

Well by net spend it's borrowed money

Still lost.

I'm not an economist, but surely, if you want society to look after your family (nurses, firefighters, teachers, coppers,binmen etc.), then you need to make a contribution.

I really don't get the narrative that tax is a bad thing.

Living in the UK is a great thing. Supporting City is a great thing.

There are overheads that come with both.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you think they should be even more centrist?

Practically what does that mean and look like?

 

[shmmeee]

Practically what does that mean and look like?

https://www.newstatesman.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/gettyimages-1157398939_1_.jpg

Or something like it but with substance. Tough on crime, fund the NHS, patriotic, etc.

 

[Ian1779]

I’m not sure why appealing to voters is “re-harnessing all their best hits from 97” and not just “how to get elected 101” TBH. Voter concerns aren’t identical to 1997, but the tactic of talking to voters about their concerns is timeless. Post Corbyn voter concerns are we’ll spend shit loads and tax the crap out of them.

And those voters aren’t concerned about UC cut, utilities skyrocketing, never being able to get on the property ladder, having to choose between food or heat for example?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Still lost.

I'm not an economist, but surely, if you want society to look after your family (nurses, firefighters, teachers, coppers,binmen etc.), then you need to make a contribution.

I really don't get the narrative that tax is a bad thing.

Living in the UK is a great thing. Supporting City is a great thing.

There are overheads that come with both.

Shhmmmeee has explained it perfectly. I recommend reading The Deficit Myth by Stephanie Kelton.
Another function of tax as well as taking money out of the economy as a means to manage inflation, is to give currency value and a reason for people to use it.
The government showed with the furlough scheme how easy it is for it to finance anything it wants to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is just pathetic. Why doesn't he just say to her that £6bn is nothing, and regardless it's all going to be spent directly in to the economy. The £6bn cut to UC is £6bn taken out of the real economy.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Genuinely never heard of him before

 

[shmmeee]

This is hilarious and not for the reasons the host thinks

 

[David O'Day]

This is just pathetic. Why doesn't he just say to her that £6bn is nothing, and regardless it's all going to be spent directly in to the economy. The £6bn cut to UC is £6bn taken out of the real economy.

they already have committed to it

 

[shmmeee]

This is just pathetic. Why doesn't he just say to her that £6bn is nothing, and regardless it's all going to be spent directly in to the economy. The £6bn cut to UC is £6bn taken out of the real economy.

Because he wants to get elected and convincing the media and public that the national finances aren’t like household finances isn’t going to be done in a one minute interview.

This is the classic Labour interview gambit: demand policy, then either slate them for not committing or slate them for “where will the money come from?”

I’m surprised you’re falling for it TBH.

 

[Ian1779]

Because he wants to get elected and convincing the media and public that the national finances aren’t like household finances isn’t going to be done in a one minute interview.

This is the classic Labour interview gambit: demand policy, then either slate them for not committing or slate them for “where will the money come from?”

I’m surprised you’re falling for it TBH.

I’m surprised you are pedalling this argument.
He had a minute to offer some reassurance at a time of need for lot of people around rocketing utility bills, it wouldn’t have killed them.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I wonder how it's going to play in Tory costal constituencies that they are pumping literal shit into the sea.

Probably one of those outraged now "how could they do this" kind of things that are ignored come election time because Labour might not be too harsh on people that have more melanin than other.

This should be a really big opportunity for the Lib Dems as the places aren't natural Labour seats but they are useless bastards too.

 

[Liquid Gold]

No matter what , its still in my best interest to vote for Labour..

Go off on your way and join the northern independence Party, join the greens , join the lib dems , or whatever fringe left wing warrior group you choose ...

But please , do not moan when the tories win again ....SIMPLE

Sorry mate, my constituency is a Labour/Green marginal.

It is impossible for Labour to gain an outright majority with Scotland lost so they are going to have to work with other parties. I think it would be better to have to work with more Green MPs than have the useless factional MP we have now.

Me voting Green instead of Labour is not going to benefit the Conservatives at all.

Of course if I was in a Labour/Con marginal I would feel differently but the choice everywhere isn't binary.

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder how it's going to play in Tory costal constituencies that they are pumping literal shit into the sea.

Probably one of those outraged now "how could they do this" kind of things that are ignored come election time because Labour might not be too harsh on people that have more melanin than other.

This should be a really big opportunity for the Lib Dems as the places aren't natural Labour seats but they are useless bastards too.

It’s part of some master plan to deter people arriving in boats.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because he wants to get elected and convincing the media and public that the national finances aren’t like household finances isn’t going to be done in a one minute interview.

This is the classic Labour interview gambit: demand policy, then either slate them for not committing or slate them for “where will the money come from?”

I’m surprised you’re falling for it TBH.

Elected by whom? More people think that benefits are too low than those who think benefits are too high.

 

[PVA]

This is hilarious and not for the reasons the host thinks

Look how the Express report it

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Look how the Express report it

Growing concrete!

 

[Ian1779]

Some Tory scum can’t help themselves can they?

 

[PVA]

Careful, Grendel will be along soon to tell you that calling scummy people scum is the most abhorrent behaviour imaginable.

 

[shmmeee]

I’m surprised you are pedalling this argument.
He had a minute to offer some reassurance at a time of need for lot of people around rocketing utility bills, it wouldn’t have killed them.

What reassurance? “Oh don’t worry guys in three years we might fix this, but probably not because we don’t care about getting elected.”. Much reassuring.

 

[shmmeee]

Elected by whom? More people think that benefits are too low than those who think benefits are too high.

Yet again you’re missing the point. People don’t vote Labour because they think we’re too soft so we have to message harder. The Tories have the opposite issue.

This was what did Corbyn. Individual policy polling over party image polling.

 

[Evo1883]

I think this is the poll that has finally done it for me with YOUGOV .

I get there are many people who would like measures re Introduced but this is definitely nonsense ...so that begs the question .. who are they asking ?

Do any of you believe these figures honestly?

 

[Grendel]

I think this is the poll that has finally done it for me with YOUGOV .

I get there are many people who would like measures re Introduced but this is definitely nonsense ...so that begs the question .. who are they asking ?

Do any of you believe these figures honestly?View attachment 22433

No its not reflective and by definition the face mask thing vs reality makes zero sense

 

[Evo1883]

No its not reflective and by definition the face mask thing vs reality makes zero sense

Exactly , 76% of people want compulsory mask wearing but dont do it themselves anyway and need the government to tell them to wear them first .. people can't honestly believe this

 

[Evo1883]

If your own party MPs don't know , what chance do we have

 

[Evo1883]

I actually put the wrong picture up , this was the one that made me laugh

Are we a nation of sociopaths

 

[SBT]

Crosstabs are here if you want to see who they asked: https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/eq0tai40an/Internal_England_COVIDRestrictions_211022_W.pdf