What if compared to a completely successful vaccine,where it would be half as effective?
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (219 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
I just don’t understand it. The headline suggests simplistically if 100 people are infected in a venue without masks if they all wore a mask then 47 would be.
It’s surely not that as it has to factor in those protected by a vaccine as well
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Wearing a mask, who's sole purpose is to contain the spread of the virus, could be just as effective at stopping transmission than a vaccine, which is primarily concerned with reducing the effect it has on people rather than the spread.
If the vaccine made the virus harmless it wouldn't matter that much if it was spreading far and wide.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it really says that and frankly your message is milk and honey to anti vaxxers
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying the report does, just that there is a logical argument that solely in terms of transmission masks could be as effective.
Only stupid people would take that sentence as being anti-vax (so, anti-vaxxers), because I'm solely talking about spreading the disease, not the effects of it. The effects would be much, much worse with mask wearing because there would be not protection in the body to stop the disease having a devastating effect. A vaccine does which is why it's far more preferable to just wearing a mask and will save a lot more lives.
Let's say you did an experiment of two crowded rooms with the same amount of Covid present in each environment. One room is full of vaccinated people not wearing masks, the other is full of unvaccinated people wearing masks. You may well find that a similar amount of people contract the virus in each room, but I'd definitely hypothesise that there'd be more serious illness and death from the room of unvaccinated masked people.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
the anti vaxxer argument - ESB said it the other day - is that vaccine does nothing to stop viral spread. Anti vaxxer health care workers say mask wearing in care homes is more effective then vaccines at protecting their clients.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Which just goes to show why they should be ignored because they're taking something that is not it's main purpose and making it the forefront of their argument.
It may well be that mask wearing will stop spread more than vaccine, but it's telling that they make no mention of the severity of those infections that do happen. Would it be better to have 100 people catch a disease and only one die, or 50 people catch it and ten die? It's a disingenous argument, like a government saying taxes are going down and everyone will have more take home pay but don't mention the people who will benefit the most are a small group of rich people. Technically, they're not lying but they're most definitely not giving full disclosure.
And do you know what would be more effective than either wearing a mask or having a vaccine. Having the vaccine AND wearing a mask.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous
Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant
Grendel
Well-Known Member
God you really are clueless sometimes - you really have zero idea of how people think and operate
ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous
Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultantwww.theguardian.com
It’s so frustrating reading that. I’ve been against mandatory vaccinations and remain so even though I’m 100% behind vaccinations and think people not having it are crazy….there’s a point where people have to accept their selfishness/bloody mindedness will lead to others dying though.
I really struggle with a solution to this, however, charging for treatment appears to maybe be a half way house (still giving people vaccination choice but them accepting there are consequences to their decision). That opens up a whole other can of worms regarding treatment of self inflicted illness though so appreciate it will never happen in this country
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Have to say, the lockdown for unvaccinated seems the best measure. It's temporary, so if you don't want the vaccine you're just doing what would otherwise be extended to everybody, and if you're not prepared to do your bit to help suppress this, then for the time we need to suppress it, that's what needs to be done.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I'm more bothered about how things actually operate, not how people think they do. Why would I want to think like people that are wrong?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No you just assume everyone thinks like you
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
You couldn't be more wrong. I think most people don't think like me. In fact I'm almost certain they don't. But that doesn't necessarily make me wrong and after years of having opinions that differed but ending up being right about the outcome more often than not I just learnt to trust my instincts and logic. The world is changed by those that look at things a bit differently.
You seem to believe you know how people think. yet are wrong about stuff so often. As Confucius said "the superior man knows what is right, the inferior man knows what will sell."
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Ignoring the anti vaxxers, governments could do so much more for those nervous about side effects by publishing some data to show how rare they are.
Unfortunately I think all the data/info in the world won’t persuade a lot of these people Fernando. There is plenty of info available yet many would prefer to believe some nut job on Facebook or tik tok.
There is no doubt some of the messaging has been weak throughout. Not helped by the bad mouthing of a perfectly good vaccine in AZ which wouldve had a knock on impact of the trust of all vaccines.
The media could push a lot of the positive vaccine news more than they do….most prefer to plough on with constant negative messaging in terms of cases, rather than positive impact of vaccines on hospitalisations/deaths though. Some of its been shameful
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Australia looking at Austria and trying to do one better.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Agree on that, cases is largely yesterday's news now really.
interesting that the German health minister has said to the German people
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I mean everyone, vaccinated or not, who doesn’t survive a Covid infection will be dead…
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Lol, yeah though I think his point was that the chances are you going to catch COVID over the winter
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Also not his first language so it may be a translation issue.
baldy
Well-Known Member
The BBC,with their constant harping on about the death figures for the 2 years this shit’s been going on for that isn’t put into any context whatsoever,are the worst - they never mention the death rates for heart related deaths for instance
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Don’t think you can catch heart disease from some moron who thinks heart disease is a hoax. Or is no worse than stitch. Maybe that’s it.
SkyBlueCharlie9
Well-Known Member
Go and watch Sky, ITV or GB News then if BBC is a bit to complicated and analytical for you! This dilusional obsession and bedwetting about the BBC by paranoid Torys is utterly ridiculous. Yet again when BBC try and hold government to account the Conservatives begin to deliberately undermine one of our greatest institutions. The days of serious independent journalism are under huge threat.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Why don't you make some figures up like you did for deaths in car accidents?!
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
By both accident & design, it appears the UK (and England in particular) have got a better handle on this heading in to winter....
...I'm not being complacent btw....but we do all love a national comparison on this thread don't we...
...I'm not being complacent btw....but we do all love a national comparison on this thread don't we...
Covid: Can UK avoid a Europe-style return to lockdown?
Good vaccine uptake and natural immunity, coupled with public caution, has put UK in a strong position.
www.bbc.co.uk
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Lets hope so. Although looking at the graphics in that article while Germany is being labelled a disaster zone with lockdown imminent their stats aren't that dissimilar to ours. Although unfortunately for them the numbers over there seem to be increasingly rapidly unlike ours but should be a warning to how quickly things can escalate.By both accident & design, it appears the UK (and England in particular) have got a better handle on this heading in to winter....
...I'm not being complacent btw....but we do all love a national comparison on this thread don't we...
Covid: Can UK avoid a Europe-style return to lockdown?
Good vaccine uptake and natural immunity, coupled with public caution, has put UK in a strong position.www.bbc.co.uk
Interesting that the problems in Germany are being blamed on low vaccine uptake. They have 67.4% of the population double jabbed, we are at 67.7%, although we are doing far better on boosters.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
2 key differences with that really:
Germany test far less....if they tested in similar numbers, they'd probably find quadruple the case numbers.
UK immunity levels from infection is way higher due to the early end to restrictions & the relatively high circulation of the virus....Germany was barely hit with the early waves and thats gonna bite them on the arse now.
On that basis, I should imagine NZ is shitting itself....
Grendel
Well-Known Member
This is why uptake figures are misleading when quoting total population
There is a significant difference in adult take up - we are now reporting 80% over 16 vaccinated fully and Germany over 18 is at 75% - we also have 15 million boosters - it’s a significant difference
This is spot on and why when I’ve seen media, commentators etc saying we are slipping behind other countries on vaccine roll out, basically because others have been getting kids jabbed, I’ve just put my head in my hands. The key is getting those most at risk ie adults, and more so older adults, vaccinated/protected. Jabbing kids might eventually help with herd immunity (I’m current not convinced herd immunity is achievable if boosters are required annually) and look good for figures but ultimately they are unlikely to get seriously ill
We have had very high case numbers recently because of the school testing but if they’re asymptomatic or not really impacted virus it doesn’t really matter as long as we are protecting those at risk...unfortunately there’s a load of idiots who prefer to remain unprotected !
I’m hoping the decision to allow Covid to spread gradually over summer, the 12 wk gap between jabs and the greater focus on getting more adults vaccinated quickly, all of which were calculated gambles, will pay off, but these gambles will only work in conjunction with a successful booster programme
