Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (176 Viewers)

[Nick]

Well when enough data gets out, compare the % getting secondary infections, hospitalised or killed by it compared to Delta. Something that is half as ‘bad’ but much more transmissible can still cause plenty of hospitalisations from a low % of a very high number of cases. If enough people are given boosters, that latter point becomes redundant. The anti vax crowd is probably the biggest problem on this anyway.

Though we just don’t have the data yet.

Again, define hospitalisations? As seen by the article already posted, it should count when people go because of the omitron. Not going anyway and happen to test for it.

It might be more infectious so it's obvious people will be turning up at hospital having it, not necessarily because of it.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Again, define hospitalisations? As seen by the article already posted, it should count when people go because of the omitron. Not going anyway and happen to test for it.

Again, that metric has been used for all the variants that came before. When you have a big enough data set, it allows them to be comparable even including cases like that.

 

[Nick]

Again, that metric has been used for all the variants that came before. When you have a big enough data set, it allows them to be comparable even including cases like that.

Again, if it's much more infectious then there's no doubt people turning up to hospital may have it. That's not saying they go to hospital because of it.

It's good for scare mongering though.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Again, if it's much more infectious then there's no doubt people turning up to hospital may have it. That's not saying they go to hospital because of it.

It's good for scare mongering though.

It was the same with Alpha and Delta.

 

[Nick]

It was the same with Alpha and Delta.

Yeah but if the next one is much more mild then the stats can and will be spun to make it look just as bad.

 

[David O'Day]

Pfffft I don’t feel foolish at all - there wasn’t actually anyone in hospital with it before it came out only today that there was
I certainly don’t feel stupid or foolish just because some of you shriek at me in response like panic stricken old women

you were wrong you thick cretin

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I've come to the conclusion it's not Covid that makes me anxious... it's people.

 

[Jamesimus]

Faz the information is already out there, you just need to search for it, you are certainly not going to be presented with it on a plate via main stream media.
Lots of data that conflicts with the official government story gets deleted very quickly, but there's more and more stuff coming on line every day. The thing is, if it was all from no marks, it wouldn't carry any weight. But there are no end of eminent experts expressing concerns.

Please share this data with your fellow CCFC fans, if you really cared about us, you would...

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

Why does it "seem excessive" compared to what?

When the vaccines were released we knew they gave approx 6 months immunity after the second dose. For me that was in August so I have about 2 months left which would've got me through the worst of winter. I understand the booster need for those that had their second jab in May/June as the immunity would've waned but those would be of higher risk than me anyway

We now have a variant which seems to now need a booster or three jabs to be immune from. What happens next year (e.g. in Spring) when another variant becomes apparent, do we need another jab? Do those that were boosted in September like my Gran need another in March Is this going to be what happens for the rest of time?

We don't do this with flu and whilst it's worse in winter hence the yearly vaccine programme it's still there all year round and mutates like any other virus

I've booked my booster for Friday and doing my bit to ensure we hopefully don't endure any further restrictions which none of us want

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

I've come to the conclusion it's not Covid that makes me anxious... it's people.

Or the media

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Or the media

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Nope, people.

 

[Jamesimus]

When the vaccines were released we knew they gave approx 6 months immunity after the second dose. For me that was in August so I have about 2 months left which would've got me through the worst of winter. I understand the booster need for those that had their second jab in May/June as the immunity would've waned but those would be of the higher risk category anyway

We now have a variant which seems to now need a booster or three jabs to be immune from. What happens next year (e.g. in Spring) when another variant becomes apparent, do we need another jab? Do those that were boosted in September like my Gran need another in March Is this going to be what happens for the rest of time?

We don't do this with flu and whilst it's worse in winter hence the yearly vaccine programme it's still there all year round and mutates like any other virus

I've booked my booster for Friday and doing my bit to ensure we hopefully don't endure any further restrictions which none of us want

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

I think that will depend on the variant (I do have a bit of time for some of the people suggesting media scaremongering around a new variant, that being said, it's a bit too early to say either way yet!). Another variant could be a good thing / bad thing / anything in-between. A variant with much milder symptoms that is highly transmissible and becomes the dominant strain could be good I think?

We've known about flu for like a 100 years and people still get yearly vaccinations for it, so I don't really understand your logic here?

Good on you for your booster, getting mine on Tuesday, going to have a beer first and make a day of it!

 

[Skybluefaz]

I've come to the conclusion it's not Covid that makes me anxious... it's people.

This latest variant stuff has exposed a few on here as genuine twats.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

When the vaccines were released we knew they gave approx 6 months immunity after the second dose. For me that was in August so I have about 2 months left which would've got me through the worst of winter. I understand the booster need for those that had their second jab in May/June as the immunity would've waned but those would be of higher risk than me anyway

We now have a variant which seems to now need a booster or three jabs to be immune from. What happens next year (e.g. in Spring) when another variant becomes apparent, do we need another jab? Do those that were boosted in September like my Gran need another in March Is this going to be what happens for the rest of time?

We don't do this with flu and whilst it's worse in winter hence the yearly vaccine programme it's still there all year round and mutates like any other virus

I've booked my booster for Friday and doing my bit to ensure we hopefully don't endure any further restrictions which none of us want

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

I do have a certain sympathy with the time element. As you suggest, it's probably driven by government not wanting to introduce more restrictions.

As for what happens in the future? Well at some point Covid will inevitably cause less disruption, illness, death. Will it be this variant that unlocks that door? Maybe. Early indications are though that while it may be not quite as potent it spreads far more effectively, so that's still an issue. We are, however, a lot better off than we were this time last year.

I appreciate everything is a pay-off, but I am slightly concerned that GPs appear to be being asked to abandon just about everything else in order to meet a wild booster target set by Johnson. I understand that Covid will inevitably mean medical services are affected elsewhere, but I'm hoping nobody I know gets ill this December!

 

[skybluetony176]

I think even elements of the media are starting to suggest that the government might be overplaying it’s card on this.



Distraction, cough cough, distraction.

 

[Nick]

What I don't get is how the government and boris seem to only tell the truth when it comes to this?

It's turned out they have mates with PPE contracts making millions, they have all been having parties and getting models way out.

Yet when it comes to COVID and a Vaccine they must be telling the truth completely and are not trying to cover up the damning stuff about them at all.

It is simple distraction, it's no different to when SISU would love the Trust asking silly stuff as then people would argue about how they aren't buying Ronaldo or they are taking billions from the club. It stops people discussing or getting too close to the actual issues.

It's not much different now all the talk is about who is going to wear a mask, who is going to get a booster and how everybody is selfish. What parties? What PPE contracts?

I'm pretty sure if a couple of years ago you had said Hancock was involved with a mate who was getting millions for PPE you would be called a crackpot.....

 

[Nick]

I appreciate everything is a pay-off, but I am slightly concerned that GPs appear to be being asked to abandon just about everything else in order to meet a wild booster target set by Johnson. I understand that Covid will inevitably mean medical services are affected elsewhere, but I'm hoping nobody I know gets ill this December!

As I said, GPs were getting a pay rise per jab even before the latest restrictions so it was clear that was being pushed.

People follow the money, don't they? I doubt people will need to be on hold for 40 minutes at 8AM to see if they can get the booster either.

 

[Jamesimus]

As I said, GPs were getting a pay rise per jab even before the latest restrictions so it was clear that was being pushed.

People follow the money, don't they? I doubt people will need to be on hold for 40 minutes at 8AM to see if they can get the booster either.

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28D39G?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16393856171910&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fuk-factcheck-gp-vaccines-idUSKBN28D39G

 

[Nick]

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28D39G?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16393856171910&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fuk-factcheck-gp-vaccines-idUSKBN28D39G

Again, I am talking about the recent increase..

I get that staff need to be paid. It's not the actual GPs doing them anyway, it will be nurses on a much smaller wage. If it's anything like the 2 jabs I had, they will be getting through an easy 50-60 jabs an hour each as well.

In the meantime, where do people go when they can't get into the GP?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Again from the other side, if everybody was tested for flu instead and died within 28 days the flu deaths would shoot up.

Numbers can be manipulated either way.

I wish cancer could be tested for do easily though and so often.

Ah the well made point. Not sure it would be hugely more but absolutely

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Ah the well made point. Not sure it would be hugely more but absolutely

It works the other way of course. A family friend got admitted 12 weeks ago because of Covid. Complications meant they got other ailments after, and it's touch and go whether they survive. If they don't... it's more than 28 days since their positive Covid test. So either way, survive or no, they're a non-death from Covid.

At the end of the day, you need a measuring tool. We've all said the excess deaths is the simplest to pick, and measures taken dragged that down somewhat... which is nice.

 

[chiefdave]

It's not the actual GPs doing them anyway

Two of my three were from my own GP, he did my flu jab as well. The other was from another GP at my surgery.

 

[fatso]

This is just copy paste nonsense isn’t it. Every time you’re debunked you move onto something else-just citing people with titles because you don’t know what you’re on about isn’t the basis of an argument.

Tell us all what the end goal of the conspiracy is.

You just suck it all up sunshine.
As I've clearly stated, I'm waiting patiently for the inevitable shit to happen.
The only people living in denial are those stupid enough to have had 2 or more vaccines, who are shitting themselves that there might be a chance that I'm correct, in which case, your fucked.
Either way, sit tight, your in for a fun time!

 

[Nick]

It works the other way of course. A family friend got admitted 12 weeks ago because of Covid. Complications meant they got other ailments after, and it's touch and go whether they survive. If they don't... it's more than 28 days since their positive Covid test. So either way, survive or no, they're a non-death from Covid.

That's incorrect. If COVID is mentioned on the death certificate it is still counted.

 

[Nick]

Two of my three were from my own GP, he did my flu jab as well. The other was from another GP at my surgery.

That's strange, why not just get nurses in on a low wage while they carry on their GP duties? I assume mine were sat at home behind a phone.

You can get the Flu Jab in Tesco for example, surely a GP has better things to be doing?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That's incorrect. If COVID is mentioned on the death certificate it is still counted.

We publish two sets of figures:

2. Positive test notifications. These figures include the deaths of anyone who has died having tested positive for COVID-19 in the last 28 days.
   
3. Death certificate notifications. These figures include the deaths of anyone who has died without testing positive in the last 28 days, but who has COVID-19 recorded as a primary or underlying cause of death on their death certificate.

So, in reference to the 28 days figure, which is what you were referring to (and I presume, because of this, where it was agreed as the accepted measure across the home nations) then no, it isn't recorded.

And if it's the primary or underlying cause of death, it should bloody well be recorded!

 

[shmmeee]

You just suck it all up sunshine.
As I've clearly stated, I'm waiting patiently for the inevitable shit to happen.
The only people living in denial are those stupid enough to have had 2 or more vaccines, who are shitting themselves that there might be a chance that I'm correct, in which case, your fucked.
Either way, sit tight, your in for a fun time!

 

[Skybluefaz]

The only people living in denial are those stupid enough to have had 2 or more vaccines

Do you believe that the vaccines work?

 

[Nick]

So, in reference to the 28 days figure, which is what you were referring to (and I presume, because of this, where it was agreed as the accepted measure across the home nations) then no, it isn't recorded.

And if it's the primary or underlying cause of death, it should bloody well be recorded!

There are 2 definitions of a death in a person with COVID-19 in England, one broader measure and one measure reflecting current trends:

1) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and either died within 60 days of the first specimen date or died more than 60 days after the first specimen date, only if COVID-19 is mentioned on the death certificate

2) A death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date

So yeah, it would be down to what is put on the Death Certificate after 60 days.

 

[Jamesimus]

You just suck it all up sunshine.
As I've clearly stated, I'm waiting patiently for the inevitable shit to happen.
The only people living in denial are those stupid enough to have had 2 or more vaccines, who are shitting themselves that there might be a chance that I'm correct, in which case, your fucked.
Either way, sit tight, your in for a fun time!

If anything this post means I'm shitting myself even less than I was before, if that's possible.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So yeah, it would be down to what is put on the Death Certificate after 60 days.

You talk of moving the goalposts, and you're furiously moving the goalposts because the evidence doesn't meet your pre-ordained views. You talk about 28 days, I respond... and because the answer doesn't fit your narrative, you move the goalposts.

Again, if Covid is the primary or underlying cause of death, of course it should be registered! However, as you were talking about the 28 day figure

The 4 UK Chief Medical Officers have recommended that a single, consistent measure is adopted for daily reporting of deaths across the UK. The UK government and the devolved administrations have agreed to publish the number of deaths that occurred within 28 days of a positive lab-confirmed COVID test result on a daily basis.

Then that is what I'm responding to.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Can't book a booster. Shambles.

 

[Nick]

You talk of moving the goalposts, and you're furiously moving the goalposts because the evidence doesn't meet your pre-ordained views.

How have any goalposts been moved?

I said about deaths counted if they died within 28 days, you said that means the family friend you know won't be counted. I said no, they still count as well and showed why.

It's not an either or, it's an and.

 

[Nick]

You talk of moving the goalposts, and you're furiously moving the goalposts because the evidence doesn't meet your pre-ordained views. You talk about 28 days, I respond... and because the answer doesn't fit your narrative, you move the goalposts.

Again, if Covid is the primary or underlying cause of death, of course it should be registered! However, as you were talking about the 28 day figure



Then that is what I'm responding to.

Again, no goalposts have been moved.

It's an AND. They still get reported after 60 days if it's on the death certificate as well as if it's within 28 days of a positive test.

Just because I said they get reported if they were within 28 days of a positive test, I didn't say they don't after. That was you.

 

[fatso]

Do you believe that the vaccines work?

I can accept that they reduce the severity of a covid infection, but at what long term effect to your own immune system?
This is a new form of vaccine with zero long term trials.
In fact the ling term trials are being done now on the global population, and the results won't be known for between 2 and 5 years.