Wasps downward spiral... (16 Viewers)

[Gynnsthetonic]

We'd be back at Sq1 though, the council with a stadium that Sisu won't pay for, Wasps didn't buy it really did they though, they just mortgaged it to pay off the councils loan if I'm correct.

 

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[Skybluemichael]

The notion it reverts to the council is a myth - it’s not a given and the lease is worth far more than the debts - we need then to survive or the club vanishes - that’s the Sisu legacy

It’s not what this bloke thinks

 

[CCFC54321]

Mate you should get back on the wasps forum - the other two posters need you

Two?!

 

[CCFC54321]

of course this all goes away if they start getting decent crowds of paying customers which then gives them a secure foothold in the city, which none of us want.

But that isn't going to happen is it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Nibble nibble

My money's on PWKH

 

[clint van damme]

But that isn't going to happen is it?

no

 

[CCFC54321]

We all know the end game here by SISU. They are simply waiting for London wasps to go under in the next couple of years and then attempt to pick up the stadium as we all know that nobody else or any other franchise will touch it. CCFC are and will be the only game in town that will take on the stadium.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

We all know the end game here by SISU. They are simply waiting for London wasps to go under in the next couple of years and then attempt to pick up the stadium as we all know that nobody else or any other franchise will touch it. CCFC are and will be the only game in town that will take on the stadium.

Wasps could trundle along for longer than that is my worry if they refinance the bonds, Owning Wasps is Derek Richardsons hobby and if he's prepared to lose millions every year what can anyone do about it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We all know the end game here by SISU. They are simply waiting for London wasps to go under in the next couple of years and then attempt to pick up the stadium as we all know that nobody else or any other franchise will touch it. CCFC are and will be the only game in town that will take on the stadium.

I think people keep forgetting we aren’t the only entity in their portfolio

 

[CCFC54321]

Wasps could trundle along for longer than that is my worry if they refinance the bonds, Owning Wasps is Derek Richardsons hobby and if he's prepared to lose millions every year what can anyone do about it

Richardson isn't the mega billionaire that people think he is. Funding this pile of shite can’t carry on forever. I don’t see what’s in it for him or his family at all. When Richardson eventually says times up or sadly passes away then they are absolutely finished?

 

[Grendel]

We all know the end game here by SISU. They are simply waiting for London wasps to go under in the next couple of years and then attempt to pick up the stadium as we all know that nobody else or any other franchise will touch it. CCFC are and will be the only game in town that will take on the stadium.

that’s just rubbish

 

[CCFC54321]

that’s just rubbish

You love being controversial don’t you?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Richardson isn't the mega billionaire that people think he is. Funding this pile of shite can’t carry on forever. I don’t see what’s in it for him or his family at all. When Richardson eventually says times up or sadly passes away then they are absolutely finished?

What’s in it for him is the property.

 

[Grendel]

Richardson isn't the mega billionaire that people think he is. Funding this pile of shite can’t carry on forever. I don’t see what’s in it for him or his family at all. When Richardson eventually says times up or sadly passes away then they are absolutely finished?

even more rubbish

 

[Grendel]

You love being controversial don’t you?

What do the terms of the lease in the case of insolvency state?

 

[Grendel]

There’s nothing controversial about countering ill informed drivel either

 

[CCFC54321]

even more rubbish

Fuck off and stop falling with out with everyone princess it’s boring. Discuss and influence people on this chat room, even people like myself. Call me this and that but I’ve read some of the some of the stuff you argue with other posters and I just think why? Just debate and influence for once.

 

[Grendel]

It’s not what this bloke thinks

Mmmm I’ve already stated that’s the default position but have also subsequently shown the actual terms of the wording and structure created that it’s not actually what will happen

 

[Grendel]

Fuck off and stop falling with out with everyone princess it’s boring. Discuss and influence people on this chat room, even people like myself. Call me this and that but I’ve read some of the some of the stuff you argue with other posters and I just think why? Just debate and influence for once.

Ok what’s the actual wording then in the case of insolvency?

 

[CCFC54321]

Ok what’s the actual wording then in the case of insolvency?

Educate us then instead of rowing all the time then!

 

[Grendel]

Educate us then instead of rowing all the time then!

here is the wording

Club aims to raise £35m from bond

Fantastic News - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-looks-raise-35million-9121703 Copy and Paste Article. No mention of it paying Richardson back too? The Richardson bit is there hidden as 'refinancing shareholder loans' I believe Sounds better than Richardsons...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

 

[Grendel]

In simple terms it would seem to prevent the default the ultimate holding company before liquidation - MGI - I assume can separate the organisations and protect the lease for the 250 years which given its value clearly Derek Richardson would

What’s your interpretation?

 

[Skybluemichael]

Grendel how many people use your account because you change your mind like the wind, for years you have been going over to drunken wasps telling them that if they default on the debt the lease goes back to the council, now all of a sudden it’s changed. You said the only reason Richardson got wasps was so he could get the stadium on the cheap as he is a “property developer at hart” and if wasps go bust that means Coventry will why? In that case Richardson would have a break even stadium without a loss making wasps.

 

[Grendel]

Grendel how many people use your account because you change your mind like the wind, for years you have been going over to drunken wasps telling them that if they default on the debt the lease goes back to the council, now all of a sudden it’s changed. You said the only reason Richardson got wasps was so he could get the stadium on the cheap as he is a “property developer at hart” and if wasps go bust that means Coventry will why? In that case Richardson would have a break even stadium without a loss making wasps.

I haven’t changed by opinion see comment 18 months ago?

Could this be good news for us to return to the Ricoh?

Very good news, hopefully they fuck off asap and we’re back at the Ricoh within weeks

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Obviously “defaulting on the debt” means no refunding in reality. The point is if they do refund then it’s obvious the whole group won’t be liquidated

The default position is return to the council but Richardson will separate the businesses if he has to.

It’s a disaster in reality if they did go under as we would never afford stadium operating costs

It won’t happen now though will it? The lease will remain valued as such even with our sub tenancy I would have thought - I’ve said on there site they will in all probability get refunding and probably more on a mortgage basis which has obvious benefits

 

[Skybluemichael]

I haven’t changed by opinion see comment 18 months ago?

Could this be good news for us to return to the Ricoh?

Very good news, hopefully they fuck off asap and we’re back at the Ricoh within weeks

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Obviously “defaulting on the debt” means no refunding in reality. The point is if they do refund then it’s obvious the whole group won’t be liquidated

The default position is return to the council but Richardson will separate the businesses if he has to.

It’s a disaster in reality if they did go under as we would never afford stadium operating costs

It won’t happen now though will it? The lease will remain valued as such even with our sub tenancy I would have thought - I’ve said on there site they will in all probability get refunding and probably more on a mortgage basis which has obvious benefits

I was replying to the message “The notion it reverts to the council is a myth” when you’ve been saying the opposite for years

 

[duffer]

the default condition is vague but the ultimate owners would have a say - Sisu aren’t buying the lease that’s for certain

Agree entirely that it's vague what happens to the lease if Wasps go bust, but the truth is that either the council or a third party would own the lease at that point.

Politically, the Council would find it hard not to come to a deal with CCFC (or just maintain the current one). Similarly, the third party would need us financially, you'd have to think.

If anything, Wasps failing puts the club back in the box seat regarding the Arena, I can't see anybody being in a rush to kick us back out.

So I still don't see how Wasps failing would in any way threaten the club.

 

[chiefdave]

Wasps going bust isn't the issue is it, isn't the stadium lease held by another company in the group so unless the whole group goes bust the ownership of the lease won't change and our current agreement will remain valid.

Is it not more likely that, if they were in that much trouble and desperately needed money or Richardson wanted to get some of his money back, they look to sell the company holding the lease or the lease itself. Not sure that anyone who took over a stadium would want to kick out a football club getting 20K turning up every week.

 

[Grendel]

I was replying to the message “The notion it reverts to the council is a myth” when you’ve been saying the opposite for yearsView attachment 23540View attachment 23541View attachment 23542View attachment 23543View attachment 23544View attachment 23545View attachment 23546View attachment 23547View attachment 23548View attachment 23549

Er....the default lease does in the scenario of the business going bust.................

 

[Grendel]

Wasps going bust isn't the issue is it, isn't the stadium lease held by another company in the group so unless the whole group goes bust the ownership of the lease won't change and our current agreement will remain valid.

Is it not more likely that, if they were in that much trouble and desperately needed money or Richardson wanted to get some of his money back, they look to sell the company holding the lease or the lease itself. Not sure that anyone who took over a stadium would want to kick out a football club getting 20K turning up every week.

The company holding a lease thats what valued at £50 - £60 million? Who would buy that?

 

[Sick Boy]

You love being controversial don’t you?

To be fair it's what everyone was saying before the franchise arrived.

 

[Grendel]

To be fair it's what everyone was saying before the franchise arrived.

There seems to be a notion on here that wasps are going to go under.

There seems to be no indication of that anyway. As long as the funding is in place next year it will be pretty much secured due to the length of lease. I assume a mortgage would allow some capital repaid as well.

The view is it will revert back to the Council and we will grab it as that is the default position if ACL went bust. The valuation of the lease remains comfortably in the realms of allowing the them I would think to borrow funds. If the fall down scenario did happen then I cannot see in reality how that would benefit us at all anyway given the relationship and a tiny lease. It would make us highly vulnerable.

The irony is our returned presence will in all likelihood strengthen the valuation and offer security to the Wasps group of companies. No one knows what we are paying but it would be interesting to know as my suspicion is it will be very little different to the original lease charge we broke (though

Wasps I do not see going anywhere. It may be failed in terms of its objective of taking supporters in the area and its grandiose claims of being the biggest club on the planet are not much better than our notion we are building a new stadium. I suspect it will look to reduce wages further on the Rugby side to balance costs as best it can

Wasps going under is of zero benefit to us.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

There seems to be a notion on here that wasps are going to go under.

There seems to be no indication of that anyway. As long as the funding is in place next year it will be pretty much secured due to the length of lease. I assume a mortgage would allow some capital repaid as well.

The view is it will revert back to the Council and we will grab it as that is the default position if ACL went bust. The valuation of the lease remains comfortably in the realms of allowing the them I would think to borrow funds. If the fall down scenario did happen then I cannot see in reality how that would benefit us at all anyway given the relationship and a tiny lease. It would make us highly vulnerable.

The irony is our returned presence will in all likelihood strengthen the valuation and offer security to the Wasps group of companies. No one knows what we are paying but it would be interesting to know as my suspicion is it will be very little different to the original lease charge we broke (though

Wasps I do not see going anywhere. It may be failed in terms of its objective of taking supporters in the area and its grandiose claims of being the biggest club on the planet are not much better than our notion we are building a new stadium. I suspect it will look to reduce wages further on the Rugby side to balance costs as best it can

Wasps going under is of zero benefit to us.

I disagree. For personal gratfication, I’d love to see them go bust, so their presence no longer taints the city

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

There seems to be a notion on here that wasps are going to go under.

There seems to be no indication of that anyway. As long as the funding is in place next year it will be pretty much secured due to the length of lease. I assume a mortgage would allow some capital repaid as well.

The view is it will revert back to the Council and we will grab it as that is the default position if ACL went bust. The valuation of the lease remains comfortably in the realms of allowing the them I would think to borrow funds. If the fall down scenario did happen then I cannot see in reality how that would benefit us at all anyway given the relationship and a tiny lease. It would make us highly vulnerable.

The irony is our returned presence will in all likelihood strengthen the valuation and offer security to the Wasps group of companies. No one knows what we are paying but it would be interesting to know as my suspicion is it will be very little different to the original lease charge we broke (though

Wasps I do not see going anywhere. It may be failed in terms of its objective of taking supporters in the area and its grandiose claims of being the biggest club on the planet are not much better than our notion we are building a new stadium. I suspect it will look to reduce wages further on the Rugby side to balance costs as best it can

Wasps going under is of zero benefit to us.

They are still making massive losses to around 10m a year, if Richardson is prepared to keep bailing them out he's going to run out of money sooner or later

 

[Travs]

Whilst i'd love to see them go bust, i think there's a higher likelihood that they will eventually realise its been a complete failure, and they would attempt to pick up where they left off back in the London area.

 

[Grendel]

They are still making massive losses to around 10m a year, if Richardson is prepared to keep bailing them out he's going to run out of money sooner or later

He hasn't loaned money I don't think for the last 3 season? (well the last 3 we have info on) - the funding is now external and there is the Share thing I don't really understand - if this is to be believed Richardson wealth remains pretty healthy

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