Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
What is the threshold of animal cruelty needed to be met before money isn’t a defence?
Kurt Zouma (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter rob9872
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What is the threshold of animal cruelty needed to be met before money isn’t a defence?
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Dunno, enough for jail time probably, then you force the clubs hand. The threshold for what gets you sent to jail for animal cruelty should be lowered imo, but that's a different/political debate. As it stands I fully understand West Ham not wanting to bin 30 million quid.
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That’s quite an idealistic way to look at it. The cost of applying a legal/moral code is always going to be a consideration, whether we like it or not.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I find animal cruelty abhorrent but it’s amazing how people turn a blind eye to the meat, dairy and clothing industries.
Right, but I’m saying it’s a more complicated question than most people think. It’s almost never going to be a case of ‘Hit a certain threshold and [x] automatically happens’
Clearly someone caught being cruel to animals should face serious personal (and legal) consequences. But the liabilities of their employer depend on a lot of complex factors - the question of who suffers and who benefits needs to be taken into account, whether you’re a teacher, a janitor, or a pro footballer. You can make an argument for a good teacher getting fined, suspended and ultimately keeping their job if the alternative would mean the students and school needlessly suffering as a result. Presumably West Ham are trying to make the same argument. Like it or not, his talent and value are material to the conversation.
curly_tom
Well-Known Member
I also find an irony in people who eat meat getting so outraged about cruelty to a cat. I haven’t watched the video but I suspect it’s disgusting. I would think that everyone who eats chicken is directly causing more pain to an animal but we are all socially conditioned to care about cats but not about chickens. This comment will really annoy people but maybe we should think about this.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
It has always puzzled me as to how many people will say "oh, I love chicken. I love pork and beef etc, but I couldn't eat a little bunny rabbit."
My daughter was like this. She said she was happy eating a cow or a pig or a sheep, but could not ever bring herself to eat a duck, or a deer, or a rabbit
It's all about conditioning isn't it
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
But why is this some people’s response to bad things…”well these other things are worse”?
I just don’t get it. Other things can be bad as well, they aren’t mutually exclusive
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
As I said, I find animal abuse abhorrent and cats are probably one of my biggest weaknesses.
Animal cruelty is animal cruelty though, it’s not “something else”.
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TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Yes I had a burger for lunch so I may as well boot my cat over the fence. In fact any animal that comes near me from now on I'm just gonna see how far I can kick it, I may as well as I already enjoy a hotdog.
Load of rubbish.
Also these discussions have been played out on this forum and it was a shit show like every other discussion.
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SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Appreciate it’s a different situation, but isn’t there a pseudo-precedent from when Chelsea sacked Adrian Mutu for drug use and he then became liable for compensation of the unamortised transfer fee (I did have to look that bit up, but knew there was a fine of sorts)?
I’d like to see clubs taking a harder stance as it’s clear gross misconduct and the money situation should take care of itself.
curly_tom
Well-Known Member
My point isn’t that people should kick their cats but that they shouldn’t eat the pigs. Obviously I’m not telling you or anyone else how you should treat animals, just pointing out the irony. As Otis says we are conditioned to be kind to cats and to eat pigs that we know have been mistreated. It’s an interesting topic for discussion.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Did he under cook it?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Rabbits were the main meat until relatively recently.It has always puzzled me as to how many people will say "oh, I love chicken. I love pork and beef etc, but I couldn't eat a little bunny rabbit."
My daughter was like this. She said she was happy eating a cow or a pig or a sheep, but could not ever bring herself to eat a duck, or a deer, or a rabbit
It's all about conditioning isn't it
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well for most of human history people didn’t eat animals out of cruelty but for nutrition. Only really in the last few decades has it been possible to get the same nutrition from entirely plant based sources.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, if you are correct then I've actually learned something on the forum today. If they can recoup their cash, then they should be looking to bin him. They won't though.
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curly_tom
Well-Known Member
Of course and I'm not trying to say that meat eaters are all cruel, it's what people do and I accept that. I just find an irony in people being (rightly) outraged about someone hurting their cat but will willingly tuck into a KFC or McDonalds when they know that many animals suffered a much worse fate in order for that burger to be on the plate. But we are all trained to switch off to those realities.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The main issue with it is factory farming, which is cruel and is a relatively modern concept.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well that is because meat eating has been the norm for thousands of years. To change attitudes there won’t happen overnight.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Yes. I remember my grandma kept feeding us rabbit.
I got sick to death in the end of having to keep going down to the pet shop to replace them. Cost me a fortune.
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Would've started again for West Ham but got injured in the warm up supposedly
Why he is still being considered after what he has done without showing true remorse is beyond me. This can ruin a dressing room and cost points
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Why he is still being considered after what he has done without showing true remorse is beyond me. This can ruin a dressing room and cost points
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Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
"remorse" for something as awful as this simply doesn't cut it. He can say sorry all he likes but no one believes anyone who does this kind of stuff. Sorry for one reason : he's been caught.
Fortunately most people have a degree of empathy and respect for animals which seems to come naturally. This act is vindictive and downright evil. God knows what else he's done previously that we don't know about.
He should be dropped but won't be because football and money are more important.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I mean you say caught, the way it was shared suggests he wanted others to see
Wyken Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It's a shame players like Duncan Ferguson aren't around anymore
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Shoppers ditch dairy following 'distressing' BBC Panorama documentary - Grocery Gazette - Latest Grocery Industry News
Angry UK customers have taken to social media to boycott the dairy industry following a BBC Panorama documentary exposing cruelty to animals.
www.grocerygazette.co.uk
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Meowed the wrong way?
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
What happened to the mantra of innocent till proven guilty. There is more than one side to this story. Trial by Media happening again.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Camera, action ! You're right. Makes it even worse. He took pleasure in it and probably had anticipated what he was going to do.