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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
It’s not really an understanding if only one party believes it to be the case. Russia have periodically griped about the ‘spirit of the agreement’ when it’s geopolitically convenient for them to do so, but the reality is there was never any concrete agreement that countries like these couldn’t one day join if they chose to. Not sure why some on here are parroting the Putin line that it’s a “fact”.
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They’ve been listening too much to Corbyn and Abbott who are bleating that NATO is the aggressor - if only he’d won eh
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Not often that Farage and Abbott are aligned on an issue! This must be a confusing time for you.
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Not really. Abbott and Corbyn are also passionate brexiteers - maybe for different reasons to Farage but in reality not that much difference - true socialism is against unification of ideas and federalism
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
It’s not really an understanding if only one party believes it to be the case. Russia have periodically griped about the ‘spirit of the agreement’ when it’s geopolitically convenient for them to do so, but the reality is there was never any concrete agreement that countries like these couldn’t one day join if they chose to. Not sure why some on here are parroting the Putin line that it’s a “fact”.
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I don’t get my news or facts from Putin, it was actually from American sources. Quick to be smug you are sometimes
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
It’s not really an understanding if only one party believes it to be the case. Russia have periodically griped about the ‘spirit of the agreement’ when it’s geopolitically convenient for them to do so, but the reality is there was never any concrete agreement that countries like these couldn’t one day join if they chose to. Not sure why some on here are parroting the Putin line that it’s a “fact”.
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It's not really an understanding if both sides have ignored it

Not sure what Russia's argument is or why they think that provoking the West is? If they do invade and the West decides to back the Ukraine with say air support the USA's military alone is far more powerful than Russia's.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
If nothing else this whole ongoing saga shows the need for net zero. The west can’t be in the grip of someone like Putin who can hold the whole of Europe to ransom with Gas supply. Best thing that Europe (including us) can do is loose our reliance on gas. Net zero is the only way to achieve that.
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Said for ages that we need energy independence and the money we were spending on things like gas and nuclear, which required extensive help from foreign nations, left us weak. We're perfectly placed to make the most of numerous renewable energy sources and the fact we haven't just because those with a lot of money and influence had a vested financial interest is scandalous. And that's before you even start to consider the environmental impacts. One of the biggest mistakes of this century (and there's been plenty to choose from).
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
The last country to join was Montenegro
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Tbh I assume when Putin refers to eastern countries it’s those within the iron curtain in the first place. The main ones of those joined NATO in 99 2000 and the rest in 2004 - most of the big states were over 20 years ago and it’s really a smokescreen as his main issue is the crimea
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Here is the former labour leaders take - a view Mr Starmer endorsed at the last election - good to see if he’d been in charge he’d be slobbering over the despot abhorred by the rest of the West

reaction.life

Jeremy Corbyn: NATO to blame for Ukraine crisis

The former Labour leader, along with long-time ally Diane Abbott, have denounced NATO at a Stop the War Coalition forum.
reaction.life reaction.life
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Here is the former labour leaders take - a view Mr Starmer endorsed at the last election - good to see if he’d been in charge he’d be slobbering over the despot abhorred by the rest of the West

reaction.life

Jeremy Corbyn: NATO to blame for Ukraine crisis

The former Labour leader, along with long-time ally Diane Abbott, have denounced NATO at a Stop the War Coalition forum.
reaction.life reaction.life
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No one is a bigger asset to Russia than Boris and the current Conservative government. Awash with soviet money and indeed people close to Putin, did Putins bidding with regards to Brexit as Putin understands that expansion of the EU means expansion of NATO, facilitates money laundering for Russian oligarchs and only intend to make that easier with deregulation etc etc. Boris and everything he’s done with your blessing is a gift that keeps giving to Putin.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
Grendel said:
Not really as even then it’s only the Baltic states isn’t it?
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Are you Liz Truss? The Baltic states, with the exception of Turkey are the most Eastern European Nato member countries. They make up three of the ten who have joined in the last 20 years.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
Grendel said:
Tbh I assume when Putin refers to eastern countries it’s those within the iron curtain in the first place. The main ones of those joined NATO in 99 2000 and the rest in 2004 - most of the big states were over 20 years ago and it’s really a smokescreen as his main issue is the crimea
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Again that's not true.

Three former iron curtain countries joined over 20 years ago. These are Poland, Hungary and Czechia (so in fact only half of former Czechoslovakia). Also East Germany became part of Nato as part of Germany.

Ten former iron curtain countries joined in the last 20 years. These are Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia and Montnegro.
 
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W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
They’ve been listening too much to Corbyn and Abbott who are bleating that NATO is the aggressor - if only he’d won eh
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Well he seems to be being extremely opportunistic to me after the Trump presidency and the the effect of that towards Europe and NATO ,not withstanding following the effect of the pandemic geopolitically and economically.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Send a sentient being next time.
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skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 9744 said:
Again that's not true.

Three former iron curtain countries joined over 20 years ago. These are Poland, Hungary and Czechia (so in fact only half of former Czechoslovakia). Also East Germany became part of Nato as part of Germany.

Ten former iron curtain countries joined in the last 20 years. These are Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Albania, Croatia and Montnegro.
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Yeah but apart from that what has NATO ever done to expand into the east?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 9744 said:
Are you Liz Truss? The Baltic states, with the exception of Turkey are the most Eastern European Nato member countries. They make up three of the ten who have joined in the last 20 years.
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you seem very keen on defending Mr Putin - no I’m not liz Truss - and Mr Putin cares not whose joined NATO
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Think you are overstating our influence. Our big play was to send Liz Truss remember.
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Well as I’ve said if it was Mr Corbyn he and Diane would be in the Kremlin trying to join forces against the big bad Western democracies
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
Grendel said:
you seem very keen on defending Mr Putin - no I’m not liz Truss - and Mr Putin cares not whose joined NATO
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In what way am I defending Putin? Believe me I am no more of a fan of him than i suspect you are.

I was just correcting your inaccurate statements.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 9744 said:
In what way am I defending Putin? Believe me I am no more of a fan of him than i suspect you are.

I was just correcting your inaccurate statements.
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I can’t find 10 states sorry I just can’t and as I’ve said you can’t include the former Balkan states as they’ve never been part of the Soviet block anyway
 
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