Do you want to discuss boring politics? (240 Viewers)

D

Deleted member 5849

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Alright, is this a private vote, or do we get to find out which way people voted? I assume the former but, just wondering which way Theresa May will vote - I reckon she'll be delighted to have the chance to vote him down...
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Alright, is this a private vote, or do we get to find out which way people voted? I assume the former but, just wondering which way Theresa May will vote - I reckon she'll be delighted to have the chance to vote him down...

Private I think but guess some will declare to apply pressure if he doesn’t resign. May 100% against Johnson !
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Alright, is this a private vote, or do we get to find out which way people voted? I assume the former but, just wondering which way Theresa May will vote - I reckon she'll be delighted to have the chance to vote him down...

Private - I think we know how she’d vote

Hunt is of interest I guess
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Hunt is of interest I guess
He'll be against. The ones who were in the cabinet but left when Johnson took over like him were obviously because they wouldn't or couldn't swear unyielding loyalty. Not like him rejoining a Johnson led cabinet would help his career either, is it.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
As a private vote a few more might put the knife in, I would expect him to cling on and he won’t be going anywhere as it’s all about him as it has been for a long time.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
I park a lot of the noise and just look at whether this cabinet has got the ideas and capability to deliver policy to get us through what will undoubtedly be a tricky time. I think we all know that answer at the moment

One of biggest mistakes Johnson has made is surrounding himself by second rate supporters in cabinet. No challenge and little intellect (other than Sunak and Gove). He’s had the chances to change it and change his ways but chosen not to
Johnson surrounded himself with second rate supporters because they're the only ones that would go anywhere near him. People without a hope in hells chance of getting a decent government position with a leader with any kind of standards and not intelligent enough to work out he's only in it for himself and will use them as sacrificial lambs whenever he needs to deflect attention.

Anyone with half a brain should have had alarm bells ringing the second they were ordered by a leader to take a pledge of loyalty to them in order to get the gig, especially in one of the foremost democracies in the world.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
This 'he got the big calls right' narrative is such bullshit. Amazing how many people fall for it though.

As if everyone in government was saying 'no, we don't want vaccines to fight this deadly virus!' but big brave Boris stood up to them and made the big call that actually yes, vaccines would be helpful. What a hero.

Youve got to be balanced PVA, the call to get Bingham in was a masterstroke as was funding Oxford and the gov pushing to use AZ as producer at cost (saved lives worldwide). He also called it right to not close down this Xmas against huge pressure. On Ukraine he was probably the strongest/most supportive western leader, especially early doors. biden has subsequently stepped up.

However, unfortunately for Johnson, his fuckup list is longer !!!
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Youve got to be balanced PVA, the call to get Bingham in was a masterstroke as was funding Oxford and the gov pushing to use AZ as producer at cost (saved lives worldwide). He also called it right to not close down this Xmas against huge pressure. On Ukraine he was probably the strongest/most supportive western leader, especially early doors. biden has subsequently stepped up.

However, unfortunately for Johnson, his fuckup list is longer !!!

I give the scientists full credit for the vaccine production and the NHS full credit for the vaccine rollout.

Boris Johnson personally deserves zero credit for the Covid response, his direct actions clearly cost thousands of lives.
 

lifeskyblue

Well-Known Member
The fallout whatever the actual numbers tonight will show a divided party, lots of infighting and a rudderless ship. With two important by-elections only a few weeks away it won’t have helped the Tory candidates at all. Obviously 180+ votes today he is safe for now (this idea of a year is arbitrary as the 1922 can and if they need to will change the rules). I think he needs 250+ to have a fighting chance of seeing this year out as pm and 290+ to see himself through to the next election.


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skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I guess the real question is how many are willing to give Boris at least another year to continue bringing down the government. Let’s face it, he’s Boris, fucking things up, breaking the rules etc is what he does, what he’s always done, no road to Damascus conversion for Boris. Keep him in for another 12 months and things will only get worse for the Tories and they’ll be much nearer to GE it isn’t going to help them get in again. So they have a clear choice. Cut the cord, bury a lot of shit with Boris and give themselves the best chance of re-election at the next GE or limp on and run the very real risk of losing the next GE. Red wall Tories, marginals, rural Tories, and London Tories are all at risk to Labour and even the Lib Dems in rural seats. The vote might be closer than some think tonight and let’s face it if he wins by 1 vote he’ll be claiming an outright victory regardless of how hollow that victory will be and regardless of how things get he’ll hold on until enough come to their senses in 12 months time, assuming enough will come to their senses. There’s also the possibility that there won’t be another challenge before the next GE as those that moved this time will think what’s the point, the damage is done. And let’s face it, Boris isn’t the type of person to resign regardless of what the inevitable outcome is likely to be.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
The fallout whatever the actual numbers tonight will show a divided party, lots of infighting and a rudderless ship. With two important by-elections only a few weeks away it won’t have helped the Tory candidates at all. Obviously 180+ votes today he is safe for now (this idea of a year is arbitrary as the 1922 can and if they need to will change the rules). I think he needs 250+ to have a fighting chance of seeing this year out as pm and 290+ to see himself through to the next election.


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The by elections will be lost anyway and aren’t really relevant at all

Johnson is an escapologist and a manufactured brand apparently totally removed from his actual personality. The Wyatt article yesterday shows he’s a better actor than even Blair.

it’s a high risk roll of dice persona and the opposite to what’s on the other side of the house
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
Anyone with half a brain should have had alarm bells ringing the second they were ordered by a leader to take a pledge of loyalty to them in order to get the gig, especially in one of the foremost democracies in the world.

The same democracy in which at the last GE every political leader except Johnson dedicated their parties to overturning the biggest democratic vote in UK history.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
Got the big calls right? 21,000 unnecessary deaths from the delays and dither, and that's the best case. This from that legendary left-wing rag, the Telegraph.


The same democracy in which at the last GE every political leader except Johnson dedicated their parties to overturning the biggest democratic vote in UK history.

Not overturning, but maybe giving people a chance to vote again on a informed basis would have been a proper use of democracy.

Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, 350m to the NHS, Norway ++, non-binding referendum, etc. etc. no one who voted for Brexit could possibly have a fucking clue what they were actually voting for. If you really believe in democracy then why would you stand against an informed vote where people has a clue what they were voting for?

Johnson, the lying fucker, illegally prorogued parliament, and is now rapidly trying to weasel out of a legally binding treaty. And you'd pretend he stands for democratic values? If you think Johnson's believes in democracy then I'm afraid you really haven't been following the news.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
The fallout whatever the actual numbers tonight will show a divided party, lots of infighting and a rudderless ship. With two important by-elections only a few weeks away it won’t have helped the Tory candidates at all. Obviously 180+ votes today he is safe for now (this idea of a year is arbitrary as the 1922 can and if they need to will change the rules). I think he needs 250+ to have a fighting chance of seeing this year out as pm and 290+ to see himself through to the next election.


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I agree that they might change the rules around 12 month period…I think they’re probably going to have to with Johnson !! I don’t get why number of letters isn’t released ? Also, for me, I think 30% should be enough to trigger leadership contest but then current PM/leader can stay in the mix. Almost like a you can either stick with me or choose one of them scenario.

It’s hard to make a call when you don’t know who the alternatives will be and what they’re proposing*

Has this changed as didnt Heseltine run against Thatcher ? now it appears you lose no confidence vote and you resign…or have I missed something/got it wrong ?


*I appreciate many will say anyone/anything’s better but you get my point
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
I agree that they might change the rules around 12 month period…I think they’re probably going to have to with Johnson !! I don’t get why number of letters isn’t released ? Also, for me, I think 30% should be enough to trigger leadership contest but then current PM/leader can stay in the mix. Almost like a you can either stick with me or choose one of them scenario.

It’s hard to make a call when you don’t know who the alternatives will be and what they’re proposing*

Has this changed as didnt Heseltine run against Thatcher ? now it appears you lose no confidence vote and you resign…or have I missed something/got it wrong ?


*I appreciate many will say anyone/anything’s better but you get my point
Well someone speculated 70 earlier.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Has this changed as didnt Heseltine run against Thatcher ? now it appears you lose no confidence vote and you resign…or have I missed something/got it wrong
Leader used to have to be elected annually by MPs. It was a formality most of thetime, of course.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Is this guy legit? Something to keep an eye on if he is. Googling him seems a split between the likes of Guido having him as a crank and the likes of Huff Post & Wired showing him as more credible.

 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Is this guy legit? Something to keep an eye on if he is. Googling him seems a split between the likes of Guido having him as a crank and the likes of Huff Post & Wired showing him as more credible.



A quick Google search shows he’s a very poor man’s Maugham- creaming a few quid from gullible idiots on a crowd funding site
 

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