USSR invades Ukraine. (68 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly, they’re enjoying the benefits of being the world’s factory too much to get involved.

Putin is playing a game of chicken hoping the west blink first. Now is not the time to come over all Neville Chamberlain like. It’s unfortunate for Ukraine but Putin can’t come out of this with anything resembling a tangible victory. Even if that means the current hardships get worse and last longer.

Well we are coming over Chamberlain like by using Ukraine like Czechoslovakia. Putin is emboldened by the world's inaction as he pillages a country he openly thinks shouldn't exist

 

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[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Maybe a massive escalation of war, they’re pow and Ukrainian citizens not Mercenaries so I can see the uk doing something to prevent these deaths.

They are simply pawns in a diplomatic row now. They'll be exchanged for several hundred Russian soldiers or have their sentence reprieved at the eleventh hour heralding Putin as a humane leader.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well Russia certainly aren't winning it.

That has been a (very successful) strategy of Ukraine throughout the war. Pull back and then counter attack.

I am confident in saying I think Ukraine will win this war (though at huge cost of course).

What does a win look like?

 

[skybluetony176]

Unfortunate

Revealed: Tories still taking cash from Russia-linked donors

The donations include £50,000 from Lubov Chernukhin, who is married to Vladimir Putin’s former deputy finance minister

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Definitely turning the screw, and in a war of attrition you want to have the advantage in numbers as the Russians do.

 

[Grendel]

Well we are coming over Chamberlain like by using Ukraine like Czechoslovakia. Putin is emboldened by the world's inaction as he pillages a country he openly thinks shouldn't exist

We is the western world not Uk in your example with chamberlain

Putin by your own admission believes Ukraine is Russian territory and you’ve also said he has a clapped out army. Well a clapped out army ain’t invading the west

it’s a spat with a country we are by definition committing an illegal act if we defend.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We is the western world not Uk in your example with chamberlain

Putin by your own admission believes Ukraine is Russian territory and you’ve also said he has a clapped out army. Well a clapped out army ain’t invading the west

it’s a spat with a country we are by definition committing an illegal act if we defend.

Your views on this have been shall we say a bit off the money in the past.

 

[Grendel]

Any talk of global war is fucking stupid. Russia's only powerful half friend is China and they are not going to get involved in a war in the Ukraine.

Lads Finland ain’t joining nato

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Definitely turning the screw, and in a war of attrition you want to have the advantage in numbers as the Russians do.

View attachment 24972

That area of occupation is far bigger than what Russia set out to "take back" . Once the Donbas has gone, and most already has, there is going to be either a continued march east and north, or a withdrawal from those areas into Donbas and a consolidation.
I'm not very confident it'll be the latter.

 

[Grendel]

Your views on this have been shall we say a bit off the money in the past.

Hardly sanctions haven’t worked, the west don’t military involvement

There isn’t one western leader that’s remotely suggesting what you are is there?

 

[Grendel]

What does a win look like?

It’s a game of top trumps - my military points are more than yours - to some on here

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hardly sanctions haven’t worked, the west don’t military involvement

There isn’t one western leader that’s remotely suggesting what you are is there?

The idea of ‘let him crack on with it’ and then criticising Zelensky for conscription with his country invaded from 3 directions just seemed a bit odd

 

[Grendel]

The idea of ‘let him crack on with it’ and then criticising Zelensky for conscription with his country invaded from 3 directions just seemed a bit odd

What western country agrees with you - name one.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What western country agrees with you - name one.

How is that relevant? Nobody here is a military adviser.

Though if you must-which country said we should ‘let Putin crack on’?

 

[Grendel]

How is that relevant? Nobody here is a military adviser.

Though if you must-which country said we should ‘let Putin crack on’?

well you have just said a few posts ago nato should take action - as no advisor would say that and would think it’s bat shit crazy why say it - it’s relevant as you are advocating isn’t it - sending nato troops into a conflict it has zero jurisdiction in? You said it?

And let’s be honest the west really are letting him “crack on” aren’t they. I would guess US intelligence would like a long struggle but weaken the Russian army and take significant enough territory and then get a deal

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

well you have just said a few posts ago nato should take action - as no advisor would say that and would think it’s bat shit crazy why say it - it’s relevant as you are advocating isn’t it - sending nato troops into a conflict it has zero jurisdiction in? You said it?

And let’s be honest the west really are letting him “crack on” aren’t they. I would guess US intelligence would like a long struggle but weaken the Russian army and take significant enough territory and then get a deal

I think if anything from his gaffes Biden privately wants much more aggression

 

[Grendel]

I think if anything from his gaffes Biden privately wants much more aggression

Lol any evidence? Anyway one leader who supports action - one

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Lol any evidence? Anyway one leader who supports action - one

Well his ‘accidents’ calling for Putin’s removal which is further than anyone else has gone.

I don’t get your point-I’m not expecting what I say to become reality. Just that letting Ukraine fall is a huge strategic gamble-it sets a precedent of Putin using the nuclear threat to invade wherever he likes.

 

[Grendel]

Well his ‘accidents’ calling for Putin’s removal which is further than anyone else has gone.

I don’t get your point-I’m not expecting what I say to become reality. Just that letting Ukraine fall is a huge strategic gamble-it sets a precedent of Putin using the nuclear threat to invade wherever he likes.

And a nato supported invasion isn’t a gamble? The point as you’ve said is Russia has little capability militarily so letting it exhaust itself by taking a couple of years to bring down Ukraine is strategically pretty sensible isn’t it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And a nato supported invasion isn’t a gamble? The point as you’ve said is Russia has little capability militarily so letting it exhaust itself by taking a couple of years to bring down Ukraine is strategically pretty sensible isn’t it?

And when it is taken is the aim to re-conquer the territory or accept a huge increase in Russian controlled territory on NATO's doorstep?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What is the line he needs to cross, in your opinion?

Attacking his family I think

 

[Grendel]

And when it is taken is the aim to re-conquer the territory or accept a huge increase in Russian controlled territory on NATO's doorstep?

you have just said yourself Russia has not got the capability

And no I don’t believe that’s the aim anyway

 

[Grendel]

Attacking his family I think

Seriously Pete grow up

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Seriously Pete grow up

Answer the question then? When would it be too much?

 

[Grendel]

Answer the question then? When would it be too much?

If Putin enters western soil clearly then. Frankly though by then he’s armies depleted and exhausted so really it’s not happening

I answered it. Ukraine on its own isn’t abs never will be worth shedding a single uk life for.

A settlement needs to be agreed at some point and the west needs to be honest. It will not ever support Ukraine but it should look to broker a deal to surrender land to Russia and force a peace of sorts through diplomacy

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If Putin enters western soil clearly then. Frankly though by then he’s armies depleted and exhausted so really it’s not happening

I answered it. Ukraine on its own isn’t abs never will be worth shedding a single uk life for.

A settlement needs to be agreed at some point and the west needs to be honest. It will not ever support Ukraine but it should look to broker a deal to surrender land to Russia and force a peace of sorts through diplomacy

So Latvia then?

 

[Grendel]

So Latvia then?

Again it’s a ridiculous diversion. at least say Moldova if you want to

He’s not invading Latvia it’s really a silly statement

If China invaded Mongolia tomorrow there would be a lot of frowning but we would do nothing and no one would be wearing the Mongolian flag

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Again it’s a ridiculous diversion. at least say Moldova if you want to

He’s not invading Latvia it’s really a silly statement

If China invaded Mongolia tomorrow there would be a lot of frowning but we would do nothing and no one would be wearing the Mongolian flag

So Moldova then? I still think you’d say not our problem

 

[Grendel]

So Moldova then? I still think you’d say not our problem

But he’s not abs I’ve said to you it’s a problem if he invaded a nato country and he won’t. He can’t and he won’t.

By implication you are suggesting war with Russia which is bat shit crazy and would escalate - look at 1914 for that

Are you suggesting military conflict with Russia?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

But he’s not abs I’ve said to you it’s a problem if he invaded a nato country and he won’t. He can’t and he won’t.

By implication you are suggesting war with Russia which is bat shit crazy and would escalate - look at 1914 for that

Are you suggesting military conflict with Russia?

No

 

[Grendel]

No

So what are you suggesting?

 

[Grendel]

I'm proposing we negotiate , or atleast attempt to negotiate a peace deal as a collective group of powerful nations.

I believe I've said this all along actually .

Yes and it’s far too sensible for frothers on here who seem to love a jolly good keyboard war

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So what are you suggesting?

Strong mediation and UN focused management of inhuman acts

 

[Grendel]

Strong mediation and UN focused management of inhuman acts

So mediation including zelensky agreeing to Russian take over of occupied territories to Russia is something you’d support?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Not sure global food shortages and poverty are a price worth paying for a country like Ukraine ? so ultimately at some point decisions will have to be made

Real talk

I am not sure I understand this point. I totally get we cannot just go in, as the risks are too high, but the threat to global food supplies comes from Russian's continued action in Ukraine. Much of the world really relies on food from Ukraine, and Russian actions are preventing it getting to them.

The atrocities on the Ukrainian citizens are appalling of course but the impact if preventing food supplies getting out especially to third world countries will have an even greater impact.