Transfer Shouts (8 Viewers)

[SBAndy]

Definitely.

We should be looking to sell Hamer and replace with 4 players of similar quality though. Not 1 player and deal with it as has been alluded to.

I’m also not massively fussed about spending on transfers. We need to increase our wage budget so even if Hamer going out gave us the opportunity to increase our wage budget by £2m per year for the next 3 years then that would give us far more opportunity to progress. Or even a bit of a balancing act between the two.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

I remember seeing Kevan Smith play and sure he was, along with Kevin Mcdonald, the slowest player I've ever seen.

It's fair to say that Sillett wasn't always the finest judge of a player from lower leagues. We had Smith, Martin Lane was another, Edwards... I guess Houchen was God for the cup games, but not that great as a top flight forward really. Emerson a hit, obviously, but struggling to think of other lower league gems that made it under Sillett (wait for somebody to reel off a list now!)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’m also not massively fussed about spending on transfers. We need to increase our wage budget so even if Hamer going out gave us the opportunity to increase our wage budget by £2m per year for the next 3 years then that would give us far more opportunity to progress. Or even a bit of a balancing act between the two.

Yeah at the end of the day it depends who, and what potential they have. How they're signed doesn't really bother me... although loan replacements won't work beyond the one-offs, for obvious reasons.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I’m also not massively fussed about spending on transfers. We need to increase our wage budget so even if Hamer going out gave us the opportunity to increase our wage budget by £2m per year for the next 3 years then that would give us far more opportunity to progress. Or even a bit of a balancing act between the two.

Transfer fees received are unlikely going to enhance our ability to increase our wage bill, not significantly anyway.

As that's completely unsustainable and one sure way for the club to bankrupt itself.

 

[Moff]

Culpin was before that

Nick Pickering and Dean Emerson?

I think Pickering was signed in the last month or so of Don Mackays stewardship

 

[procdoc]

The only thing I’m slightly concerned about is us stagnating and not building upon last season.

 

[SBAndy]

Transfer fees received are unlikely going to enhance our ability to increase our wage bill, not significantly anyway.

As that's completely unsustainable and one sure way for the club to bankrupt itself.

Very interesting take. What I’m getting at isn’t an ongoing increase, merely using funds (like suggested) to give us the ability to bring in half-decent players on half-decent 3-year contracts this summer. If it all goes tits up then they’re out of contract by the time the wage bill has to be reduced again.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

It’s also the issue with people getting hung up on “keeping hold of the big 3”. If we want to progress in the medium term we *need* to sell and reinvest. Hamer, O’Hare or Gyokeres get to their last year of contract and we’re fucked.

Equally if we are going to see little of the money me might as well keep them and use them.

 

[mark82]

Transfer fees received are unlikely going to enhance our ability to increase our wage bill, not significantly anyway.

As that's completely unsustainable and one sure way for the club to bankrupt itself.

It's budgetable. For instance if you use the money to bring in a player on 10k per week, that's roughly 500k per year, £1.5m over 3 year contract. Appreciate that's not quite accurate with other costs such as NI contributions & other employment costs but it can be used in that way without risking the future of the club - particularly as a lot of the transfer fee would be received in installments anyway.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Very interesting take. What I’m getting at isn’t an ongoing increase, merely using funds (like suggested) to give us the ability to bring in half-decent players on half-decent 3-year contracts this summer. If it all goes tits up then they’re out of contract by the time the wage bill has to be reduced again.

Oh apologies I thought you meant over the coming years - meaning we'd essentially have to be relying on significant player sales season after season in order to sustain the continuous hikes. One bad window would essentially cripple the club.

 

[scottccfc]

nothing more then just a name but IF vik was to go, what about trying to go for Josh Maja

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I AM SO ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING I DONT KNOW WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN!

I’m going to book a romantic weekend with the wife in Middlesbrough. I’d ask for suggestions on where to stay but the thread’s full of them

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

It's budgetable. For instance if you use the money to bring in a player on 10k per week, that's roughly 500k per year, £1.5m over 3 year contract. Appreciate that's not quite accurate with other costs such as NI contributions & other employment costs but it can be used in that way without risking the future of the club - particularly as a lot of the transfer fee would be received in installments anyway.

It's not particularly in the medium term. As you're relying on consistent sales to fund that.

What happens if O'Hare or Hamer suffer either a massive drop-off in form or perhaps more likely suffer serious injuries ultimately affecting their value? There's no guarantee the players brought in on the aforementioned significant wages will succeed given that every transfer has an element of risk attached to it and as such the club could be left with few saleable assets to sustain their now unsustainable wage bill.

As mentioned they might perhaps in the short term to increase the wage bill marginally in order to give Robins some extra room to manoeuvre but in the medium term they're highly unlikely to take such a risk.

However I'm not particularly holding my breath when there's interest payments owed, operational costs to cover and the EFL loan looming.

 

[edgy]

A name out of the blue with no substance other than the Brighton link.

Moisés Caicedo

Ecudorian international, signed for Brighton last summer for £4,5m but sent out on loan to Beershot in Belgium. Recalled by Brighton during a midfielder shortage and played a few games in the PL towards the end of last season. Very higly thought of by Potter and Brighton but maybe an English loan would be his next likely destination?

 

[SBAndy]

A name out of the blue with no substance other than the Brighton link.

Moisés Caicedo

Ecudorian international, signed for Brighton last summer for £4,5m but sent out on loan to Beershot in Belgium. Recalled by Brighton during a midfielder shortage and played a few games in the PL towards the end of last season. Very higly thought of by Potter and Brighton but maybe an English loan would be his next likely destination?

I’d imagine he will be very much in the first team frame now Bissouma has gone.

Edit: and I wonder whether the loan to Belgium (a trick Man Utd used to use) was more to do with work permit issues.

 

[SBAndy]

It's not particularly in the medium term. As you're relying on consistent sales to fund that.

What happens if O'Hare or Hamer suffer either a massive drop-off in form or perhaps more likely suffer serious injuries ultimately affecting their value? There's no guarantee the players brought in on the aforementioned significant wages will succeed given that every transfer has an element of risk attached to it and as such the club could be left with few saleable assets to sustain their now unsustainable wage bill.

As mentioned they might perhaps in the short term to increase the wage bill marginally in order to give Robins some extra room to manoeuvre but in the medium term they're highly unlikely to take such a risk.

However I'm not particularly holding my breath when there's interest payments owed, operational costs to cover and the EFL loan looming.

If you continually recycled the method I’ve mentioned then you’d be able to organically grow the wage budget without risking the club’s future. Yes of course it relies on player sales but without a change in ownership it’s the only way we’ll be able to improve.

 

[Briles]

I think we will keep waghorn

 

[Liquid Gold]

I beg of you all to please stop talking as if instalments make a difference. All transfers of a significant value in or out are paid in instalments. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

If you continually recycled the method I’ve mentioned then you’d be able to organically grow the wage budget without risking the club’s future. Yes of course it relies on player sales but without a change in ownership it’s the only way we’ll be able to improve.

Personally, with how we operate - i.e. SISU's only form of investment being short-term high-interest loans - I think our wage bill can realistically only be constructed mainly from consistent sources of income. E.g. Commercial and ticketing revenue, TV money, F&B and sponsorship.

If we get ourselves into a situation of using received transfer fees as a basis from which to establish a wage budget then that's more likely than not to land us in hot water as there's far too many uncertainties and irregularities in football to rely on transfer fees as a consistent source of income and to subsidise a growing wage bill.

 

[edgy]

I’d imagine he will be very much in the first team frame now Bissouma has gone.

Edit: and I wonder whether the loan to Belgium (a trick Man Utd used to use) was more to do with work permit issues.

Yes you're probably right. Was daydreaming on how to soften the blow of a potential Hamer deal.

 

[Saddlebrains]

I think we will keep waghorn

I fucking hope not, never seen such a waste of a city shirt since Neil Wood

 

[fernandopartridge]

I fucking hope not, never seen such a waste of a city shirt since Neil Wood

Ridiculous post

 

[Saddlebrains]

Ridiculous post

Why is it?

I suppose you thought he 'brought something to the team'

Na im joking great, season 1 goal 1 assist, lets extend him

 

[fernandopartridge]

Why is it?

I suppose you thought he 'brought something to the team'

Na im joking great, season 1 goal 1 assist, lets extend him

Grow up, and yes he did bring something when he played and he was much better than Neil fucking Wood.

 

[Saddlebrains]

Grow up, and yes he did bring something when he played and he was much better than Neil fucking Wood.

What did he bring?

 

[edgy]

Swaghorn

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

I fucking hope not, never seen such a waste of a city shirt since Neil Wood

I think that's a bit unfair. He's been pretty unfortunate. Showed some initial promising signs but then caught Covid, suffered injuries then when he was returned his place was lost to an in-form Godden.

 

[SBAndy]

Personally, with how we operate - i.e. SISU's only form of investment being short-term high-interest loans - I think our wage bill can realistically only be constructed mainly from consistent sources of income. E.g. Commercial and ticketing revenue, TV money, F&B and sponsorship.

If we get ourselves into a situation of using received transfer fees as a basis from which to establish a wage budget then that's more likely than not to land us in hot water as there's far too many uncertainties and irregularities in football to rely on transfer fees as a consistent source of income and to subsidise a growing wage bill.

And on a base level I’d agree *if* we were speculatively increasing the wage bill on potential future transfer fees. What I’m suggesting is the reverse of that - using fees received as a means to fund future wages. I’ll hypothesise this quickly (and I’ll use round numbers to make it easier to explain so don’t read into the figures used!):

Say we get £8m for Hamer. £2m taken by SISU either for club overheads or as interest payments (rightly or wrongly, it’ll probably happen). This leaves £6m. You could then split that £6m over the next 3 years and increase the wage bill by £2m per year using this income that has already been received.

In a year’s time, we come to sell Gyokeres and he commands a fee of £12m. Again, £3m cut to SISU leaving £9m. Spread that over 3 years again and you can inflate by a further £3m per year based on income received.

Then one of the players we’ve brought in using Hamer’s funding blossoms and is worth £6m. £1.5m to SISU and £4.5m spread over 3 years again. You’re now in a situation where, instead of having a wage budget in a year of £15m (rough estimate of where we are at the moment) this is organically increased to £21.5m. If the rest of the players signed using those initial Hamer funds fail then their contracts roll off in time for the £2m drop the following year.

It’s just a rough working theory and crucially doesn’t take into account contract extensions but as a framework I think it has legs. For reference, that extra £6.5m that we’ve created on the wage bill for the ‘top performing’ season equates to an additional £125,000 per week on wages.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

And on a base level I’d agree *if* we were speculatively increasing the wage bill on potential future transfer fees. What I’m suggesting is the reverse of that - using fees received as a means to fund future wages. I’ll hypothesise this quickly (and I’ll use round numbers to make it easier to explain so don’t read into the figures used!):

Say we get £8m for Hamer. £2m taken by SISU either for club overheads or as interest payments (rightly or wrongly, it’ll probably happen). This leaves £6m. You could then split that £6m over the next 3 years and increase the wage bill by £2m per year using this income that has already been received.

In a year’s time, we come to sell Gyokeres and he commands a fee of £12m. Again, £3m cut to SISU leaving £9m. Spread that over 3 years again and you can inflate by a further £3m per year based on income received.

Then one of the players we’ve brought in using Hamer’s funding blossoms and is worth £6m. £1.5m to SISU and £4.5m spread over 3 years again. You’re now in a situation where, instead of having a wage budget in a year of £15m (rough estimate of where we are at the moment) this is organically increased to £21.5m. If the rest of the players signed using those initial Hamer funds fail then their contracts roll off in time for the £2m drop the following year.

It’s just a rough working theory and crucially doesn’t take into account contract extensions but as a framework I think it has legs. For reference, that extra £6.5m that we’ve created on the wage bill for the ‘top performing’ season equates to an additional £125,000 per week on wages.

Some interesting thoughts. I think there are more costs to be considered - and I doubt Robins would be given up to 75 per cent of a sale but it's something the club could at least consider for the short term at the very least.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Hull City have put a bid in of £3m for Scott Twine. Strong statement of intent from them.

 

[robbiekeane]

I beg of you all to please stop talking as if instalments make a difference. All transfers of a significant value in or out are paid in instalments. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference.

Does my fucking head in

 

[robbiekeane]

Same as people talking about transfer fees and wages as if they come out of different pots

 

[SBAndy]

Some interesting thoughts. I think there are more costs to be considered - and I doubt Robins would be given up to 75 per cent of a sale but it's something the club could at least consider for the short term at the very least.

Cut it down to 50% then. Still results in £4.6m (or £90k per week) extra on the wage budget at the peak.

Again, appreciate there’s other elements such as signing on bonuses, possible transfer fees, contract extensions, etc. Though you’d hope that the only contract extensions would be for those who carry value.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I’m going to book a romantic weekend with the wife in Middlesbrough. I’d ask for suggestions on where to stay but the thread’s full of them

You might be better off heading over to the divorce thread in that case.

 

[Samo]

Same as people talking about transfer fees and wages as if they come out of different pots

And people talking about us not being able to afford a players wages as if they are going to expect their current wage for the rest of their career, even if they are in decline or in need of a fresh start.