USSR invades Ukraine. (80 Viewers)

[Grendel]

It's not really that important as it is catastrophic either way

PVA is only interested in a x box fantasy war and a top trump big tank victory

 

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[PVA]

PVA is only interested in a x box fantasy war and a top trump big tank victory

You're a fucking weird bloke.

 

[Grendel]

You're a fucking weird bloke.

Not really - look in tbd mirror for that Mr Binary

 

[PVA]

Not really - look in tbd mirror for that Mr Binary

This is an interesting thread and there have been plenty of interesting discussions in here but your only contributions are to snipe at every post and start arguments because it's seemingly all you have in life.

You did the same in the jubilee thread.

 

[Grendel]

This is an interesting thread and there have been plenty of interesting discussions in here but your only contributions are to snipe at every post and start arguments because it's seemingly all you have in life.

You did the same in the jubilee thread.

It’s an interesting discussion frankly without your tub thumping jingoism - many not just me are bored with it

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well in the scheme of things it quite clearly is important.

Plus we don't know if that unit was comprised of 10 men or 1000 men.

Either way, details matter.

That's right but it was clearly significant enough to be worthy of comment in an interview

 

[PVA]

It’s an interesting discussion frankly without your tub thumping jingoism - many not just me are bored with it

I don't think you know what jingoism means.

 

[PVA]

That's right but it was clearly significant enough to be worthy of comment in an interview

If course it's significant, I'm not saying it isn't.

I'm just saying it is important to clarify it was 80% of the unit, and not of total forces or forces in a region. Just for the avoidance of doubt.

 

[Grendel]

This is an interesting thread and there have been plenty of interesting discussions in here but your only contributions are to snipe at every post and start arguments because it's seemingly all you have in life.

You did the same in the jubilee thread.

So if you want a sensible discussion let’s parallel this to say the U.K. is Ukraine

- you can’t really equate land mass as the U.K. is higher populated but much smaller

- the relative equivalent would crudely be that a foreign enemy has invaded mainland U.K. and it controls the South West and across the south east to Brighton

- 17 million people have either left the country or displaced from their homes

- 3 major cities Bristol Plymouth and Bournemouth have been bombed to
Oblivion and the people in Bristol can’t escape and are dying from disease

- inflation is 20%

- London is being shelled frequently

So that’s the reality and Mr Johnson is off on video links at rock concerts and he’s got a cayman island account and he’s dancing with Ben Stiller

Thats the reverse reality and I doubt some bloke called PVA on a Ukrainian football fans forum egging people on saying the war is being won is many crumbs of comfort

Have a day off

 

[PVA]

So if you want a sensible discussion let’s parallel this to say the U.K. is Ukraine

- you can’t really equate land mass as the U.K. is higher populated but much smaller

- the relative equivalent would crudely be that a foreign enemy has invaded mainland U.K. and it controls the South West and across the south east to Brighton

- 17 million people have either left the country or displaced from their homes

- 3 major cities Bristol Plymouth and Bournemouth have been bombed to
Oblivion and the people in Bristol can’t escape and are dying from disease

- inflation is 20%

- London is being shelled frequently

So that’s the reality and Mr Johnson is off on video links at rock concerts and he’s got a cayman island account and he’s dancing with Ben Stiller

Thats the reverse reality and I doubt some bloke called PVA on a Ukrainian football fans forum egging people on saying the war is being won is many crumbs of comfort

Have a day off

That's your attempt at a sensible discussion? Really?

As I say, you're just fucking weird.

 

[Grendel]

That's your attempt at a sensible discussion? Really?

As I say, you're just fucking weird.

And you are a rather unpleasant human being who doesn’t care who dies as long as your ok - what have I said that’s not factually correct?

 

[PVA]

And you are a rather unpleasant human being who doesn’t care who dies as long as your ok - what have I said that’s not factually correct?

You literally said 'let Putin get on with it' so you can piss off trying to take the moral high ground.

 

[Grendel]

You literally said 'let Putin get on with it' so you can piss off trying to take the moral high ground.

What does a victory for Ukraine look like?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I understand the idea of fighting to the last man and surrendering not one inch of Ukrainian soil, but if this means that every single occupant of Ukraine is killed and the whole Ukraine is razed to the ground then it begs the question whether it's really worth it.
In WW2 France surrendered and much of it survived intact. The subsequent defeat of Germany by the allies meant that France never endured what Ukraine may have to over decades . I don't trust Putin one bit and while Ukraine has no "allies" to come to it's rescue I see no alternative to its complete destruction unless it is prepared to give some territory.
How the west reacts to that depends on whether we think it worth long term sanctions . Personally I'll go without most of my radiators being on this winter if that helps but I'm sure others wouldn't be that bothered. Money talks, as does being comfortable.

This is a pretty terrible analogy to be honest. France not only surrendered early but half of it turned to a collaborationist regime which assisted in imposing anti-Semitic laws and in the former French colonies actually fought harder against the Allies than it did the Axis.

Putin will not stop until Ukraine ceases to exist-why help him?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What does a victory for Ukraine look like?

I would assume:

Russia pisses off out of all occupied territory
Russia pays full reparations for causing all the damage
Putin hangs at a war tribunal

 

[Grendel]

I would assume:

Russia pisses off out of all occupied territory
Russia pays full reparations for causing all the damage
Putin hangs at a war tribunal

Well that’s a long wait

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well that’s a long wait

Indeed but it answers the question

 

[Grendel]

Indeed but it answers the question

How many die in the process? Who cares I guess

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How many die in the process? Who cares I guess

Well I mean let's examine your past contributions here:

Let Putin crack on with it
Zelensky is the bad guy for conscripting adults to fight
As and when Putin conquers Ukraine we should negotiate with him to give some of it back

It tells me either you agree at least in part with Putin's rationale or as I think is more likely, are just making contrarian points to get a rise

 

[PVA]

And don't forget Zelensky not shaving. Apparently that's a worse crime than indiscriminately bombing civilians.

 

[Grendel]

Well I mean let's examine your past contributions here:

Let Putin crack on with it
Zelensky is the bad guy for conscripting adults to fight
As and when Putin conquers Ukraine we should negotiate with him to give some of it back

It tells me either you agree at least in part with Putin's rationale or as I think is more likely, are just making contrarian points to get a rise

No I’m asking what’s the outcome - I admit I’m not that bothered and really I doubt anyone at Glastonbury is either and no I don’t think Mr Zekensky is a nice cuddly chap either - it’s clear Russia will end up with some of Ukraine and it’s not going to be a easy peace but lives will be saved

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I’m asking what’s the outcome - I admit I’m not that bothered and really I doubt anyone at Glastonbury is either and no I don’t think Mr Zekensky is a nice cuddly chap either - it’s clear Russia will end up with some of Ukraine and it’s not going to be a easy peace but lives will be saved

So he should just be allowed to take as much of the country as he wants? Don't really know why I'm engaging, it's clear you're on the wind up in this topic

 

[Grendel]

So he should just be allowed to take as much of the country as he wants? Don't really know why I'm engaging, it's clear you're on the wind up in this topic

no I’m not negotiating is the only way to stop a long war that I’m the end most people will forget is even happening

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

no I’m not negotiating is the only way to stop a long war that I’m the end most people will forget is even happening

There is no negotiation to be had short of Putin agreeing to withdraw completely and pay reparations for an invasion entirely of his own making. To concede territory voluntarily will mean he'll be back for more soon after

 

[PVA]

There is no negotiation to be had short of Putin agreeing to withdraw completely and pay reparations for an invasion entirely of his own making. To concede territory voluntarily will mean he'll be back for more soon after

Yeah Ukraine aren't going to negotiate. They won't concede any land in negotiations.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How Are the sanctions going out of interest and I suspect if 25% of our country had been displaced and cities the size of Bristol has been blown into oblivion you may raise questions if Mr Johnson was wearing combat jackets, looking concerned and without a shave but had Cayman island bank accounts and was joining in a virtual festival in Germany and dancing and singing with a Hollywood star.

You would be raising questions wouldn’t you?

Of course, but I'd be raising a bigger question of the alternative that was doing that on steroids.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah Ukraine aren't going to negotiate. They won't concede any land in negotiations.

I mean I'm certain most Ukrainians would want to see Putin hanging from the nearest tree as well but would take a full retreat and reparations.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

no I’m not negotiating is the only way to stop a long war that I’m the end most people will forget is even happening

At what point will you understand that he'll just regroup, send his 'separatists' further into Ukraine to get the narrative they want independence and go again? It won't stop the war, at best it will pause it so he can manufacture more weapons to bomb the fuck out of it and kill even more people.

How many people died after "peace in our time"?

 

[Grendel]

At what point will you understand that he'll just regroup, send his 'separatists' further into Ukraine to get the narrative they want independence and go again? It won't stop the war, at best it will pause it so he can manufacture more weapons to bomb the fuck out of it and kill even more people.

How many people died after "peace in our time"?

swell - what shall we do then - bomb Moscow - what’s the plan?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

swell - what shall we do then - bomb Moscow - what’s the plan?

Well your plan would have seen tanks rolling through Chisinau and Tblisi by now never mind the Donbas

 

[Grendel]

Well your plan would have seen tanks rolling through Chisinau and Tblisi by now never mind the Donbas

With reflect I asked the question - what’s the plan?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

With reflect I asked the question - what’s the plan?

The current plan seems to be to arm Ukraine as much as practicable and hope for the best

 

[PVA]

Fuck Russia.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I would assume:

Russia pisses off out of all occupied territory
Russia pays full reparations for causing all the damage
Putin hangs at a war tribunal

How many Ukrainians alive now won't see it?

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[shmmeee]

How many Ukrainians alive now won't see it?

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How many wouldn’t survive occupation?