Do you want to discuss boring politics? (216 Viewers)

[CCFCSteve]

Well yes, but doesn't matter whether it's Truss or Johnson - the Tory leader is not competent.

Truss is utterly hopeless, but I don't see things being any worse under her than Johnson (can they get any worse!?).

So I'll happily trade a year of Truss for a significant positive change afterwards.

A lot of damage could be done in two years and there’s going to be some massive decisions to make regarding the economy, NI protocol and the war

Look at the people who publicly support truss, if some of them are going to be in the cabinet we are in trouble

 

---

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes so he's more likely to win the next election than Truss

So the election is then on policy and ideology.

 

[Grendel]

So the election is then on policy and ideology.

with him it’s binary so if it’s Corbyn Foot or Starmer vote Labour if he’s against Heath major or Johnson

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A lot of damage could be done in two years and there’s going to be some massive decisions to make regarding the economy, NI protocol and the war

Look at the people who publicly support truss, if some of them are going to be in the cabinet we are in trouble

There's also potentially decisions to be made ref COVID and vaccines this autumn and winter too.

Plenty of things she and her backers can fuck up irreparably!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

with him it’s binary so if it’s Corbyn Foot or Starmer vote Labour if he’s against Heath major or Johnson

Thing is I'd vote Starker against Sunak in all probability, but I want hope it's not scorched earth if Conservatives win!!

 

[Grendel]

There's also potentially decisions to be made ref COVID and vaccines this autumn and winter too.

Plenty of things she and her backers can fuck up irreparably!

I suppose it will be fairly good fun and a test of the constitutional system

 

[Grendel]

Thing is I'd vote Starker against Sunak in all probability, but I want hope it's not scorched earth if they win!!

Would you have voted for the foot benn combo against Heath if they’d stood at the same time. Funny from a eu perspective

 

[PVA]

with him it’s binary so if it’s Corbyn Foot or Starmer vote Labour if he’s against Heath major or Johnson

A bit rich from you given you'll excuse Islamophobia and sexual harassment if they wear a blue tie.

And wanting the Tories out is not binary. The majority of the country would agree with me on needing that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Would you have voted for the foot benn combo against Heath if they’d stood at the same time. Funny from a eu perspective

That's an interesting one. Without being there I couldn't tell you, but I always said I wasn't averse to a lefty Brexit (protectionism, state aid, cut VAT) but we were never going to get that.

Shows how far we shifted that Heath was left of Blair in many ways!

You need to add a Roy Jenkins led Alliance to that as well of course.

 

[Grendel]

A bit rich given you'll excuse Islamophobia and sexual harassment if they wear a blue tie.

And wanting the Tories out is not binary. The majority of the country would agree with me on needing that.

I’ll ignore the first paragraph of nonsense and oddly you’d accuse me of classic deflection

So Let’s ignore Heath and go the full Margaret Thatcher vs Michael Foot and Lord Anthony Wedgewood Benn - who’d get your vote?

 

[Grendel]

That's an interesting one. Without being there I couldn't tell you, but I always said I wasn't averse to a lefty Brexit (protectionism, state aid, cut VAT) but we were never going to get that.

Shows how far we shifted that Heath was left of Blair in many ways!

Well it is interesting - Heath is the last probable traditional conservative leader though I guess you could argue Major was similar but by then the Bennites it seemed on eu policy had infiltrated the Tory party.

It is an interesting thought that if Foot had won the election how history round have shaped itself both here and in the EU

 

[PVA]

I’ll ignore the first paragraph of nonsense and oddly you’d accuse me of classic deflection

So Let’s ignore Heath and go the full Margaret Thatcher vs Michael Foot and Lord Anthony Wedgewood Benn - who’d get your vote?

It's not a deflection. You've made it quite clear you have no problem with Tories committing sexual harassment.

As for your second paragraph I couldn't give a toss about a bunch of politicians serving before I was even born.

Funnily I'm more concerned with the here and now and the priority is getting rid of the corrupt bunch of cunts in government.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well it is interesting - Heath is the last probable traditional conservative leader though I guess you could argue Major was similar but by then the Bennites it seemed on eu policy had infiltrated the Tory party.

It is an interesting thought that if Foot had won the election how history round have shaped itself both here and in the EU

Major didn't seem particularly moderate at the time - he does now!

 

[Grendel]

It's not a deflection. You've made it quite clear you have no problem with Tories committing sexual harassment.

As for your second paragraph I couldn't give a toss about a bunch of politicians serving before I was even born.

Funnily I'm more concerned with the here and now and the priority is getting rid of the corrupt bunch of cunts in government.

Yes I have made it clear and again this conversation isn’t about sexual harassment

Regarding a bunch of politicians before you were born wasn’t that one of the selling points of Mr Starmer and his rather convenient name?

Everyone who comments on politics should have an understanding of the past history - I don’t think the Labour Party would have actually survived at all if McMillan hadn’t retired from politics - it was before I was born - but if you have interest in politics you should learn and read about it

Including the present which is why I advised you to read up on Mr Starmer but as he’s Labour it’s ok with you. If it was 1924 no doubt if you lived in Smethwick you’d have been very smitten with the Labour candidate against the terrible Neville Chamberlain

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes I have made it clear and again this conversation isn’t about sexual harassment

Regarding a bunch of politicians before you were born wasn’t that one of the selling points of Mr Starmer and his rather convenient name?

Everyone who comments on politics should have an understanding of the past history - I don’t think the Labour Party would have actually survived at all if McMillan hadn’t retired from politics - it was before I was born - but if you have interest in politics you should learn and read about it

Including the present which is why I advised you to read up on Mr Starmer but as he’s Labour it’s ok with you. If it was 1924 no doubt if you lived in Smethwick you’d have been very smitten with the Labour candidate against the terrible Neville Chamberlain

Tbf said candidate shifted as chameleon like as Liz Truss!

 

[Grendel]

Tbf said candidate shifted as chameleon like as Liz Truss!

But at the time he was LABOUR and we needed as was so eloquently put to then think of the here and now and get those cunts out of office

What a powerful and educated political debate

Also even I would defend truss against that level of deviation

 

[PVA]

Yes I have made it clear and again this conversation isn’t about sexual harassment

Regarding a bunch of politicians before you were born wasn’t that one of the selling points of Mr Starmer and his rather convenient name?

Everyone who comments on politics should have an understanding of the past history - I don’t think the Labour Party would have actually survived at all if McMillan hadn’t retired from politics - it was before I was born - but if you have interest in politics you should learn and read about it

Including the present which is why I advised you to read up on Mr Starmer but as he’s Labour it’s ok with you. If it was 1924 no doubt if you lived in Smethwick you’d have been very smitten with the Labour candidate against the terrible Neville Chamberlain

You're totally missing the point.

I don't care about history or 1924. I'm not Labour or nothing - I've voted for several parties.

I'm only interested in getting this cabal of crooks out and right now the best chance of doing that is Labour

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But at the time he was LABOUR and we needed as was so eloquently put to then think of the here and now and get those cunts out of office

At the time though his policies weren't quite so... divisive. Was also a time when people shuffled more b result, if not so extremely. Lloyd George broke the Liberal Party being propped up by Tories, and MacDonald did the same for Labour.

And as for that Churchill fella...

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You're totally missing the point.

I don't care about history or 1924. I'm not Labour or nothing - I've voted for several parties.

I'm only interested in getting this cabal of crooks out and right now the best chance of doing that is Labour

But if you don't pull the Tory Party towards normal, there's forever a risk of nutters. That means don't elect the current nutter in chief?

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder if Truss’ first meaningful decision will have to be scrap the Rwanda plan



It will be a short honeymoon with her cheerleaders if she does.

 

[shmmeee]

Tory Mebership are batshit Update:

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Tory Mebership are batshit Update:

Please tell me that's a small proportion of them

 

[Grendel]

Please tell me that's a small proportion of them

he may make a comeback in 12 months if Truss wins

 

[shmmeee]

Please tell me that's a small proportion of them

1% TBF

 

[Deleted member 5849]

he may make a comeback in 12 months if Truss wins

Imagine. A spot of fridge hiding, and five more years

 

[Grendel]

Imagine. A spot of fridge hiding, and five more years

count me in

 

[Ian1779]

A bit rich from you given you'll excuse Islamophobia and sexual harassment if they wear a blue tie.

And wanting the Tories out is not binary. The majority of the country would agree with me on needing that.

So Starmer’s job between now and the next election is showing people he doesn’t lead a party of TorIes in red ties.

 

[shmmeee]

So Starmer’s job between now and the next election is showing people he doesn’t lead a party of TorIes in red ties.

Something I never get about this accusation. If you’re a dirty right wing careerist desperate to get into power and be a Tory, why not just … be a Tory? Like they win much more, why not cross the floor and have it easy with your Tory mates?

 

[Ian1779]

Something I never get about this accusation. If you’re a dirty right wing careerist desperate to get into power and be a Tory, why not just … be a Tory? Like they win much more, why not cross the floor and have it easy with your Tory mates?

It’s not an accusation - but if you want the electorate to get the Tories out then you at least show them that you aren’t like them. The electorate is bigger than 50+ white homeowners in the North of England. You can’t take the rest for granted.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s not an accusation - but if you want the electorate to get the Tories out then you at least show them that you aren’t like them. The electorate is bigger than 50+ white homeowners in the North of England. You can’t take the rest for granted.

In what way are Labour not different to the Tories? It’s just a lazy accusation. We’ve seen what happens with the Labour right in power: we get Sure Start and NMW and LGBT reform and massive investment in public services, massive poverty and homelessness decreases, economic growth. Because while they may be the right of Labour, they’re significantly to the left of the Tories.

The electorate is indeed bigger than 50+ homeowners, and it’s an order of magnitude bigger than the number of committed socialists.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

But the damage in the meantime could be great. And do you want her in charge of any crises coming up?

Of course not. It would be disastrous.

 

[shmmeee]

Also: the Tory Party is the most effective election winning machine in the world. They don’t believe everything they say because they know first they get elected then they stuff their mates pockets with cash.

Any winning election strategy is, by definition, going to look a bit “Tory”.

 

[Ian1779]

In what way are Labour not different to the Tories? It’s just a lazy accusation. We’ve seen what happens with the Labour right in power: we get Sure Start and NMW and LGBT reform and massive investment in public services, massive poverty and homelessness decreases, economic growth. Because while they may be the right of Labour, they’re significantly to the left of the Tories.

The electorate is indeed bigger than 50+ homeowners, and it’s an order of magnitude bigger than the number of committed socialists.

It’s not a lazy accusation… just one you don’t like. These are things that Labour did 15 years ago. Are you telling me Starmer and Reeves are going to do all that again. Do you really believe that?

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Call me old fashioned, but I want to vote on competent leaders, and it be about policy and ideology.

That's not an option in this leadership race. Obviously Truss is even less competent than the other two but they are also useless.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Sunak appears to be competent.

Where do you get that idea from?