Do you want to discuss boring politics? (156 Viewers)

[Otis]

is it half time? What’s the score?

Truss 2 v 1 Sunak

 

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[shmmeee]

He banned front benchers from attending picket lines but allowed Lammy to go on TV spouting shite.
And the problem isn't that he isn't left wing enough, the problem is he's an untrustworthy liar.
There's no point in me saying the tories are untrustworthy liars we need them, so I'm going to vote for an untrustworthy liar to replace them.

Labour and the Tories are the same actually. Iamverysmart

 

[clint van damme]

So no, you can’t then.

An MPs job isn’t to picket, it’s to pass or protect laws that allow picketing to happen. If we were in govenrment would you want the PM on the picket line of every industrial dispute?

So do you think that course of action is in line with his statement on workers rights and Labour's relationship with the unions?

And would I want a PM on a picket line, no.

Would I want the LOTO throwing his weight behind the working man when there's a cost of living crisis, eye watering rises in energy prices, retired people having to look for work in record numbers, it would be nice, yeah.

 

[David O'Day]

He banned front benchers from attending picket lines but allowed Lammy to go on TV spouting shite.
And the problem isn't that he isn't left wing enough, the problem is he's an untrustworthy liar.
There's no point in me saying the tories are untrustworthy liars we need them, so I'm going to vote for an untrustworthy liar to replace them.

And that was an attempt at stopping Labour being painted as 70s "lefties2 by the press. The rights and wrongs of that are a completely different conversation. To say that it is proof that Starmer doesn't support workers rights is utter bullshit.

I get Starmer isn't Corbyn, he's not a huge political drain on the party.

 

[clint van damme]

Labour and the Tories are the same actually. Iamverysmart

There's not enough difference to appeal to me with this clown in charge.
And I've voted for every Labour leader in my life time at least once, from Kinnock through to Blair, through to Miiband and Corbyn.

 

[clint van damme]

And that was an attempt at stopping Labour being painted as 70s "lefties2 by the press. The rights and wrongs of that are a completely different conversation. To say that it is proof that Starmer doesn't support workers rights is utter bullshit.

I get Starmer isn't Corbyn, he's not a huge political drain on the party.

You centrists are obsessed with Corbyn.
And as I stated, it didn't stop the press painting the party as '70s leftists' anyway.

If Starmer is scared of what they'll say about him now, wait until the election draws near.

 

[JAM See]

He told front benchers not to attend picket lines.
And I know you'll say you've got to play the game but he didn't warn front benchers not to trash strikers or BA workers who were trying get pay reinstated.

And the Mail ran a story saying he secretly supported the strikes so the right wing press put the booting anyway and Starmer distances himself from working people trying to better their lot in about of living crisis, that's not a Labour leader in my book.

Hmm.

 

[David O'Day]

You centrists are obsessed with Corbyn.
And as I stated, it didn't stop the press painting the party as '70s leftists' anyway.

If Starmer is scared of what they'll say about him now, wait until the election draws near.

I'm far from a fucking centrist. Weak to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a "centrist".

I just think any Labour government will be a million times better than a Tory one and the UK isn't going to elect a "left" labour party so we need to be more moderate and left of centre.

It's about winning elections as without that it's just a 6th form debating society

 

[clint van damme]

I'm far from a fucking centrist. Weak to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a "centrist".

I just think any Labour government will be a million times than a Tory one and the UK isn't going to elect a "left" labour party so we need to be more moderate and left of centre.

It's about winning elections as without that it's just a 6th form debating society

Again, I would vote for a Labour Party that was more centrist if it had a decent leader who wasn't full of bullshit and actually stood for something.
Starmer drew me in, but time after time he's reneged on it until he's lost me.

 

[David O'Day]

Again, I would vote for a Labour Party that was more centrist if it had a decent leader who wasn't full of bullshit and actually stood for something.
Starmer drew me in, but time after time he's reneged on it until he's lost me.

Fine, you can vote for who you want. Running around calling anyone who disagrees with you a "centrist" is still the behaviour of a melt though

 

[clint van damme]

Fine, you can vote for who you want. Running around calling anyone who disagrees with you a "centrist" is still the behaviour of a melt though

Perhaps if people didn't keep bringing an aging independent from Islington there'd be no need.

 

[David O'Day]

Perhaps if people didn't keep bringing an aging independent from Islington there'd be no need.

If people wouldn't keep wishing he was the leader he wouldn't be mentioned.

Anyway, it's fucking nonsense to say Starmer doesn't care about workers rights.

 

[Grendel]

If people wouldn't keep wishing he was the leader he wouldn't be mentioned.

Anyway, it's fucking nonsense to say Starmer doesn't care about workers rights.

Boring match?

 

[clint van damme]

If people wouldn't keep wishing he was the leader he wouldn't be mentioned.

Anyway, it's fucking nonsense to say Starmer doesn't care about workers rights.

I don't wish he was still leader. And I never mentioned him, I started off asking a simple question, why did Starmer make a pledge about renationisation if he was going to renege on it?

I haven't had a satisfactory answer, Starmer himself blamed Covid, Shmmeee said something about Corbyn that didn't make sense in relation to the question.

Andin my opinion, he doesn't give a fuck about workers rights, (remember him scoffing about the striking Coventry bin lorry drivers?), if you believe him, fair enough, but he's not convinced me.

In fact, that's wrong, he did have me convinced, but based on what I've seen since he's changed my mind.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'm far from a fucking centrist. Weak to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a "centrist".

I just think any Labour government will be a million times better than a Tory one and the UK isn't going to elect a "left" labour party so we need to be more moderate and left of centre.

It's about winning elections as without that it's just a 6th form debating society

It lost 2010 and 2015 from the centre, it isn't a guarantee of success and long term is a disaster. The last Labour government could have made fundamental changes but instead went with a load of 3rd way market driven rubbish, NHS internal markets, PFI, privatisation of services everywhere.

Who actually wants any more of that shit?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[David O'Day]

Boring match?

Unlike your alky brain I can watch a football match and post on a forum at the same time.


You feeling ok Grenners because even for you that was really weak.

 

[David O'Day]

I don't wish he was still leader. And I never mentioned him, I started off asking a simple question, why did Starmer make a pledge about renationisation if he was going to renege on it?

I haven't had a satisfactory answer, Starmer himself blamed Covid, Shmmeee said something about Corbyn that didn't make sense in relation to the question.

Andin my opinion, he doesn't give a fuck about workers rights, (remember him scoffing about the striking Coventry bin lorry drivers?), if you believe him, fair enough, but he's not convinced me.

In fact, that's wrong, he did have me convinced, but based on what I've seen since he's changed my mind.

You can have your opinion, it's nonsense but you can have your opinion.

I would like some actual evidence to back up what you say though.

 

[clint van damme]

You can have your opinion, it's nonsense but you can have your opinion.

I would like some actual evidence to back up what you say though.

Well you can get the evidence about renationalisation from reading his pledge and listening to what he's had to say this week.

I've made my mind up about his stance on workers right based onthe last few weeks.

Liz Truss says she's going to shred all EU climate legislation.
Liz Truss say under her the UK will meet its 2050 net zero targets.

Do you believe her on the second statement?

 

[David O'Day]

Well you can get the evidence about renationalisation from reading his pledge and listening to what he's had to say this week.

I've made my mind up about his stance on workers right based onthe last few weeks.

Liz Truss says she's going to shred all EU climate legislation.
Liz Truss say under her the UK will meet its 2050 net zero targets.

Do you believe her on the second statement?

What?

If you have made up your mind can you kindly point me in the direction on him saying he doesn't?

The Truss part of your post makes me feel there isn't actually any evidence just you have decided this. That's a valid opinion, utter nonsense though but a valid opinion to have,

 

[Ian1779]

It lost 2010 and 2015 from the centre, it isn't a guarantee of success and long term is a disaster. The last Labour government could have made fundamental changes but instead went with a load of 3rd way market driven rubbish, NHS internal markets, PFI, privatisation of services everywhere.

Who actually wants any more of that shit?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Guardian opinion writers and that’s about it.

 

[clint van damme]

What?

If you have made up your mind can you kindly point me in the direction on him saying he doesn't?

The Truss part of your post makes me feel there isn't actually any evidence just you have decided this. That's a valid opinion, utter nonsense though but a valid opinion to have,

I've given you my evidence, you don't think it points to the conclusions I've come to, fair enough, but what evidence do you have that he does care about workers rights?

He made a lot of big promises the union conference last year but he's changed his mind on issues since then, why can't he do it on this and hide behind covid?

 

[David O'Day]

I've given you my evidence, you don't think it points to the conclusions I've come to, fair enough, but what evidence do you have that he does care about workers rights?

He made a lot of big promises the union conference last year but he's changed his mind on issues since then, why can't he do it on this and hide behind covid?

the "evidence" was to be fair at best piss weak, there is nothing to actually contradict the "new deal for uk workers" which is labours employment policy. Those "big promises" are still policy.

Sorry but you are talking utter shite, I have no interest in changing your mind but you have no evidence. End of

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Starmer says he still supports the right to strike, but he also openly said he didn't want the RMT strikes to happen and for MPs to stay away from the pickets. All the while Liz Truss has said she wants to crank up the anti union laws up another notch from already being some of the harshest in the first world and ban striking altogether.

There's a real open goal here for him. What actually is a union-it's the result of lots of working people collectively trying to improve their working conditions. If you're anti union, you're anti worker. He could be the one to change the narrative and say he's the one really on the side of all working people.

But as we've seen the preferred trend is to react to whatever narrative the Conservatives have chosen and play around it. Burnham needs to be leader pronto-someone get him a by election.

 

[clint van damme]

the "evidence" was to be fair at best piss weak, there is nothing to actually contradict the "new deal for uk workers" which is labours employment policy. Those "big promises" are still policy.

Sorry but you are talking utter shite, I have no interest in changing your mind but you have no evidence. End of

So your evidence is something said by a proven liar who this week has changed his mind on another policy and blamed covid.

Fair enough if you trust him but your evidence is no more concrete than mine. Do you think the unions still think he'll deliver?

And I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on this because the working men and women of this country have had far too much shit for too long and paid for the mistakes and greed of others but I don't trust him to be their champuon.

 

[David O'Day]

So your evidence is something said by a proven liar who this week has changed his mind on another policy and blamed covid.

Fair enough if you trust him but your evidence is no more concrete than mine. Do you think the unions still think he'll deliver?

And I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on this because the working men and women of this country have had far too much shit for too long and paid for the mistakes and greed of others but I don't trust him to be their champuon.

ok, you think he's changed his then.

that make more sense

 

[clint van damme]

ok, you think he's changed his then.

that make more sense

Not sure what you mean?
I've been saying that all along (regarding nationalisation).

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So your evidence is something said by a proven liar who this week has changed his mind on another policy and blamed covid.

Fair enough if you trust him but your evidence is no more concrete than mine. Do you think the unions still think he'll deliver?

And I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on this because the working men and women of this country have had far too much shit for too long and paid for the mistakes and greed of others but I don't trust him to be their champuon.

Well we had Unite threatening to pull their funding for Labour over the bin strikes. Speaking to the president of my union he said 'we can't rely on Labour anymore so we'll have to do things ourselves'.

On the other hand Mick Lynch has still been saying he really wants Starmer to win but wishes he would at least appear to support working people. Johnson was right on one thing-we still haven't heard really what Starmer's putting forward as an alternative. Part because he never gives his opinion, part because he thinks it's too early to get some policy ideas out.

 

[David O'Day]

Not sure what you mean?
I've been saying that all along (regarding nationalisation).

there isn't any evidence that starmer doesn't support workers rights but you feel he has changed his mind

it's valid pov, one i feel is nonsense though

still i have no interest in changing your mind, you can believe it and i can think it's nonsense

 

[clint van damme]

Well we had Unite threatening to pull their funding for Labour over the bin strikes. Speaking to the president of my union he said 'we can't rely on Labour anymore so we'll have to do things ourselves'.

On the other hand Mick Lynch has still been saying he really wants Starmer to win but wishes he would at least appear to support working people. Johnson was right on one thing-we still haven't heard really what Starmer's putting forward as an alternative. Part because he never gives his opinion, part because he thinks it's too early to get some policy ideas out.

I know Sharon Graham has been very critical of the party and as you said, wants to reduce funding.
I've not heard her dire try having a go at Starmer though she may have.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I know Sharon Graham has been very critical of the party and as you said, wants to reduce funding.
I've not heard her dire try having a go at Starmer though she may have.

Perhaps not openly but I think most of the big unions privately anyway have given up on Starmer lending any support. There is half a chance if he got elected that some of the anti union laws of the past 40 years could be revoked, of course that wouldn't appear on the manifesto and I wouldn't expect it to either.

I mean already the rules in place for a strike are designed to be prohibitive. They have to have the vote by post only, they have to hit a 50% turnout, give 2 weeks' notice if they hit the threshold, and are only allowed 6 on the picket at any time and even then only for an hour at a time. For the RMT to get such overwhelming numbers despite these shows you how strong the sentiment is in their membership.

 

[David O'Day]

I know Sharon Graham has been very critical of the party and as you said, wants to reduce funding.
I've not heard her dire try having a go at Starmer though she may have.

she's had a mare and has been very quiet since she got bodied by that peak starmerphile jon lansman

unite funds are going nowhere

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

she's had a mare and has been very quiet since she got bodied by that peak starmerphile jon lansman

unite funds are going nowhere

Well that is until the membership votes to pull them. I mean if Labour aren't openly pro union what's the point in unions contributing millions of pounds to the party?

 

[David O'Day]

Well that is until the membership votes to pull them. I mean if Labour aren't openly pro union what's the point in unions contributing millions of pounds to the party?

big if, there has been no movement of note to do that

as lansman it's better to push for change inside the tent than storming off and having no say at all

unite are currently still quite powerful within the party with a large "block vote" and a seat on the NEC

 

[Ian1779]

she's had a mare and has been very quiet since she got bodied by that peak starmerphile jon lansman

unite funds are going nowhere

Her job is to serve the wishes of her members.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

big if, there has been no movement of note to do that

as lansman it's better to push for change inside the tent than storming off and having no say at all

unite are currently still quite powerful within the party with a large "block vote" and a seat on the NEC

Equally all that money ultimately comes from the membership and if the Labour leader can't openly support union activity then it does beg the question of whether it would be better spent elsewhere.