What the fuck has happened to England (8 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

The worst thing about it is ... there was an element of luck in the way the ball bounced for Italys equaliser too

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

We took the lead early on and then were second best for most of the rest of the game and never had another shot on target in normal time .

We literally tried to defend a lead for an entire match

I just watched the highlights on YouTube, doesn't mean a lot I know, but I'm traumatized again now.

As you say, it shouldn't have got that far, but Pickford did so well in the penalty shootout and so many of our players bottled it when it was their turn. Unforgivable.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I often wonder how previous tournament defeats on penalties or dodgy goals (Seaman v Brazil) are seen as unlucky, but Southgate's are seen as lucky to be there at all, and he cost us the win. Why can't he be unlucky too, if we're applying the same standards?

Take Italia 90, we were lucky to be in the semi-finals at all. Poor in the groups, scraped through a bit fortunately against Belgium, struggled to beat a Cameroon side who weren't all that really and were a tremendous draw for us really.

if we're holding Southgate standards elsewhere, Italia 90 was a terrible failure as we really weren't very good apart from in two games - one of which happened to be the semi-final.

Of course to say that would be a nonsense, wouldn't it!

Precisely this. History will look favourably on Southgate and the slander needs to stop.

Earlier in the thread, people gave Capello a free pass for finishing second in a charitable Group and A relatively charitable route to a semi final.

The bottom line is this: before Southgate, we left tournaments early and usually in embarrassing circumstances. Now, other nations respect the threat of England.

Our squad is good, but how much of our team would get into the 2002-2010 teams? Prime Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell? For example, Stones and Maguire are good players but they aren’t on that level.

Our squads in 2018 and 2021 were some of the youngest squads at the tournaments. Of course they’re going to struggle with game management compared to other, more experienced teams.

 

[procdoc]

Precisely this. History will look favourably on Southgate and the slander needs to stop.

Earlier in the thread, people gave Capello a free pass for finishing second in a charitable Group and A relatively charitable route to a semi final.

The bottom line is this: before Southgate, we left tournaments early and usually in embarrassing circumstances. Now, other nations respect the threat of England.

Our squad is good, but how much of our team would get into the 2002-2010 teams? Prime Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell? For example, Stones and Maguire are good players but they aren’t on that level.

Our squads in 2018 and 2021 were some of the youngest squads at the tournaments. Of course they’re going to struggle with game management compared to other, more experienced teams.

The Southgate love in is pathetic. He was shit at club level and we just lost 4-0 at home to the mighty Hungary. He played Mount in one game ahead of Grealish because he offers more defensively so Southgate even wants his attackers to be defensive.
He’s a fraud of a manager and a yes man to the FA. And why does he select about 28 right backs in every fucking squad, he’s clueless

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

No place for Maddison again but he finds space for the hopelessly out of form Mount and Phillips who you can’t say he is out of form as he rarely gets a game.

 

[Otis]

No place for Maddison again but he finds space for the hopelessly out of form Mount and Phillips who you can’t say he is out of form as he rarely gets a game.

True. Glad Ivan Toney has been given a chance though .

 

[SKYBLUES90]

Got to feel for Maddison, it’s clear at this point Southgate has an issue with him. No way mount gets in in front of him.

 

[Otis]

Got to feel for Maddison, it’s clear at this point Southgate has an issue with him. No way mount gets in in front of him.

As I have said before, along with a number of others, I just don't get Mount's inclusion. He seems to offer very little at international level for England.

 

[Frostie]

Got to feel for Maddison, it’s clear at this point Southgate has an issue with him. No way mount gets in in front of him.

Did you see the Leicester v Brighton game?
Brighton targeted him & he just constantly coughed up possession & dawdled around making no attempt to retrieve the situation.
Ended up being bellowed at by his teammates. Every player can have off days but that's certainly not the way to play yourself into the England squad.

Mount has had a disappointing start to the season but who hasn't at Chelsea? Whether you like him or not he's far more trustworthy.

 

[CovBrummie94]

Coady, Maguire, Shaw, Phillips, Bowen, Grealish all very lucky to be in the squad

 

[Nick]

Clearly not picked on form.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Did you see the Leicester v Brighton game?
Brighton targeted him & he just constantly coughed up possession & dawdled around making no attempt to retrieve the situation.
Ended up being bellowed at by his teammates. Every player can have off days but that's certainly not the way to play yourself into the England squad.

Mount has had a disappointing start to the season but who hasn't at Chelsea? Whether you like him or not he's far more trustworthy.

He’d pick Mount regardless because he fits the ultra defensive mindset. Don’t forget we shipped 4 to Hungary because we weren’t defensive enough.

 

[rob9872]

I have no issue with Mount playing if Rice was the only holding MF, but he insists on Rice, & Henderson and then still plays Mount. Far too negative when our key players (imo) are people like Foden, Saka, Bellingham & Sancho.

The issue with Maddison I guess is that we have so many midfielders already tried and tested too, people like Ward-Prowse, Phillips, Grealish Gallacher, Smith-Rowe Loftus-Cheek in addition to those already mentioned. In fact even people like Willock & the Ox probably ahead of him too in Southgate's mind. We have so many options but up front we only really have Kane or Sterling. Less options up front and I think it's too soon for Toney, and not sure Rashford is right which only leaves Kane or Sterling really.

 

[stay_up_skyblues]

Maddison dropped himself with his casino antics after being excused from England duty for illness didn’t he? Gave Southgate (who I don’t think rates him) an excuse not to pick him regardless of form.

 

[Frostie]

I have no issue with Mount playing if Rice was the only holding MF, but he insists on Rice, & Henderson and then still plays Mount. Far too negative when our key players (imo) are people like Foden, Saka, Bellingham & Sancho.

Probably some truth to that but I can see why.
If you look at teams that win major international tournaments in recent years they are nearly always built on strong defences, we don't have that so he tries to shore it up by the tactics & personnel he implements.

Playing Phillips with Rice, whilst not exciting, has worked well (Not Henderson though, he's completely shot now & should never play for England again imo). This enables us to get the best out of the likes of Maguire as we're using him in a system he's comfortable with unlike at United where he's horribly exposed.

Our talent pool is so imbalanced that we're absolutely stacked in the 10 & wide attacking areas but woefully short elsewhere so sacrifices need to be made. Unfortunately you can't just throw your most talented XI on to the pitch & expect them to win, just won't happen.

Also re: Mount. I don't think people dislike Mount for who he is but for who he isn't.
He's back to back Chelsea POTY & puts up great numbers usually but they will always clamour for more exciting players like Maddison, Grealish etc. who in truth are nowhere near as effective in a team game.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Probably some truth to that but I can see why.
If you look at teams that win major international tournaments in recent years they are nearly always built on strong defences, we don't have that so he tries to shore it up by the tactics & personnel he implements.

Playing Phillips with Rice, whilst not exciting, has worked well (Not Henderson though, he's completely shot now & should never play for England again imo). This enables us to get the best out of the likes of Maguire as we're using him in a system he's comfortable with unlike at United where he's horribly exposed.

Our talent pool is so imbalanced that we're absolutely stacked in the 10 & wide attacking areas but woefully short elsewhere so sacrifices need to be made. Unfortunately you can't just throw your most talented XI on to the pitch & expect them to win, just won't happen.

Also re: Mount. I don't think people dislike Mount for who he is but for who he isn't.
He's back to back Chelsea POTY & puts up great numbers usually but they will always clamour for more exciting players like Maddison, Grealish etc. who in truth are nowhere near as effective in a team game.

All that happens in trying to do that is the attacking threat becomes stifled and the defence remains prone to gaffes. Play to your strengths, and if we have a collection of brilliant attacking talent, a few decent wing backs, mediocre centre backs and an unpredictable keeper then accept that and allow the flair players more freedom.

Nothing highlights it better than the Euro final, we actually went for Italy's throat and they had no answer. Then reverted to type and invited needless amounts of pressure for an entire half.

 

[Frostie]

All that happens in trying to do that is the attacking threat becomes stifled and the defence remains prone to gaffes. Play to your strengths, and if we have a collection of brilliant attacking talent, a few decent wing backs, mediocre centre backs and an unpredictable keeper then accept that and allow the flair players more freedom.

Nothing highlights it better than the Euro final, we actually went for Italy's throat and they had no answer. Then reverted to type and invited needless amounts of pressure for an entire half.

Agree. I have always said I don't particularly rate Southgate tactically. I totally get what he's trying to achieve but he often gets the balance all wrong.

 

[LastGarrison]

Italy at over 2/1 at home against an England side whose likely centre back pairing is Maguire and Dier.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Italy at over 2/1 at home against an England side whose likely centre back pairing is Maguire and Dier.

Has Maguire even played for Man Utd since the first few games?

 

[LastGarrison]

Has Maguire even played for Man Utd since the first few games?

Don’t think he’s started any.

 

[David O'Day]

Don’t think he’s started any.

Maybe one of the Europa League games

 

[It’sabatch87]

Italy at over 2/1 at home against an England side whose likely centre back pairing is Maguire and Dier.

Italy double chance 8/15 nailed on money.
1-1 draw written all over it!!

 

[LastGarrison]

Italy double chance 8/15 nailed on money.
1-1 draw written all over it!!

That’s exactly what my mate said!! He also said the ref is card happy so gonna have a little dabble in that market as well.

Definitely seems to be a bit of value.

 

[It’sabatch87]

That’s exactly what my mate said!! He also said the ref is card happy so gonna have a little dabble in that market as well.

Definitely seems to be a bit of value.

We’ve not a great record in Italy, we do like a draw with them though. That’s my call but obviously hope they prove me wrong.
Just done both teams 2+ cards@ 11/8
and also draw and under 2.5 goals@ 13/5.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Italians missing a few of their best players. Tonali, Veratti and Immobile

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

That woman singing the national anthems is freaking me out.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

That home shirt is fucking hideous

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Started where we let off, then.

 

[chiefdave]

That home shirt is fucking hideous

how can you get a plain white shirt so badly wrong

 

[It’sabatch87]

I quite liked that ladies shirt from the euros, 100 times better than the mens!!

 

[David O'Day]

this is shit

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

this is shit

Gets my vote. Commentators talking about players that won't pass forward (Maddison?)
Can't believe Maguire is still playing. Dier ? Sterling has been awful first 20 mins.

Edit: Saka crap game so far (doesn't usually play where Southgate has picked him - surprise)

 

[lifeskyblue]

We lucky Italy poor in final third otherwise we could be 2down already.


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[Johnnythespider]

Foden trying to inject some pace into our play, the rest are like "don't think so Phil, Gareth wouldn't like it"

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

I genuinely don't know what they are trying to do at times. So ponderous.