Do you want to discuss boring politics? (227 Viewers)

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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Things Starmer says you agree with: likely just positioning for the crowd. Not happening.

Things Starmer says you disagree with: definitely happening and even if just playing politics he shouldn’t.
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I said I'll wait and see. I never said it won't happen.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Yeah I don’t really get the frustration at Labour not calling a VONC every week - strikes me as the political equivalent of demanding that Robins brings on Tavares every 10 minutes in the match thread.
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The government is on the ropes and is as weak as it's going to get. Why wait 2 years and allow them to recover?
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Things Starmer says you agree with: likely just positioning for the crowd. Not happening.

Things Starmer says you disagree with: definitely happening and even if just playing politics he shouldn’t.
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isn't it more a case of people judging him from his track record?

the ten pledges he made in his leadership campaign and then largely went back on have stuck with a lot of people so now when he says something there's a section of people who aren't confident he will action the things he's promising
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The government is on the ropes and is as weak as it's going to get. Why wait 2 years and allow them to recover?
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Well that's literally my question. As others say, a VONC might not pass right now, which is significant. If it forces Tories to close ranks around the PM in order to avoid an election then that might be another reason to hold off.

Again, I'm guessing that just as scoring goals in football matches requires more sophisticated tactics than "bring on all your strikers as quickly as possible", there might be a strategy at play for the opposition beyond "call a confidence vote every time the government looks shaky". Doesn't stop people shouting for it from the sidelines though.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Well that's literally my question. As others say, a VONC might not pass right now, which is significant. If it forces Tories to close ranks around the PM in order to avoid an election then that might be another reason to hold off.

Again, I'm guessing that just as scoring goals in football matches requires more sophisticated tactics than "bring on all your strikers as quickly as possible", there might be a strategy at play for the opposition beyond "call a confidence vote every time the government looks shaky". Doesn't stop people shouting for it from the sidelines though.
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I know you like your Tavares analogies but this is somewhat different.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Well that's literally my question. As others say, a VONC might not pass right now, which is significant. If it forces Tories to close ranks around the PM in order to avoid an election then that might be another reason to hold off.

Again, I'm guessing that just as scoring goals in football matches requires more sophisticated tactics than "bring on all your strikers as quickly as possible", there might be a strategy at play for the opposition beyond "call a confidence vote every time the government looks shaky". Doesn't stop people shouting for it from the sidelines though.
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Every MP that has called for her to go and then backs her in a VONC provides a pile of ammunition for Labour to use once we get to an election footing.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
likely to have got rid by the end of today
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seems increasingly unlikely she can ride it out so what happens next. surely they can't have another leadership election this soon but equally they can't just parachute someone in.

general election seems the obvious answer but are they going to call an election it seems pretty clear they're going to lose. maybe they will, I think there's an argument that handing over to Labour for the next few years while they sort themselves out and then run the next campaign on 'look at the mess Labour have made', as there's no way everything can be sorted in one term, is their best option at the moment.

all that of course is before you consider the dire lack of talent in the party or parliament as a whole.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Every MP that has called for her to go and then backs her in a VONC provides a pile of ammunition for Labour to use once we get to an election footing.
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It worked well before - amazingly successful
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
It is - but doing one now won’t affect that timescale.
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Well presumably forcing Tory MPs into a position where they have to publicly back a Prime Minister they'd otherwise be happy to cut loose does affect the timescale quite a bit?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
I thought the aim was to avoid waiting two years for an election?
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The aim is to further crank up the political pressure on the government. Government approval is as low as it ever has been since 2010, there's open discontent in the party, the economy's in a mess. Forcing MPs to say they have confidence in the PM when this is going on makes any subsequent leadership challenge look even worse.

Go for the jugular
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Well presumably forcing Tory MPs into a position where they have to publicly back a Prime Minister they'd otherwise be happy to cut loose does affect the timescale quite a bit?
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Does it? The whole purpose would be surely to pin this group of MP’s to this wholly incompetent leader…. Just showing that their actions are only for their own ‘personal interest’ rather than in any national one.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
This could be absolutely huge depending on how it’s done:

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To be honest it would be easier to nationalise the care sector rather than relying on myriad tiny SMEs to do it, they'll just fold rather than get on board with a national pay bargain. Even if they're not nationalised they are just not paid enough by commissioning organisations who have had their budgets to pay smashed in real terms over the past 12 years.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
To be honest it would be easier to nationalise the care sector rather than relying on myriad tiny SMEs to do it, they'll just fold rather than get on board with a national pay bargain. Even if they're not nationalised they are just not paid enough by commissioning organisations who have had their budgets to pay smashed in real terms over the past 12 years.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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Seemed ok when run by LA's.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Does it? The whole purpose would be surely to pin this group of MP’s to this wholly incompetent leader…. Just showing that their actions are only for their own ‘personal interest’ rather than in any national one.
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Well pinning this group of MPs to their leader ensures that an election doesn’t happen for another two years. Alternatively you let Tory MPs eat each other alive, keep your powder dry and see if they do your own dirty work for you (like, in say, 10 minutes from now).

If this really is such a foolproof political tactic, isn’t it surprising that it’s never been used in modern parliamentary history before?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't be surprised if she played the mental health card to garner a bit of sympathy.

I'm so giddy for a general election 🤞🏻
 
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