shepardo01
Well-Known Member
Been saying the same over the last few weeks.....
Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (6 Viewers)
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Well that's my point. They were hoping for a situation where the debt was mostly if not totally wiped.
Nick
Administrator
That's the other thing, do we think Ashley is going to pay all of ACL's debts off?
If he is, why did he let it go into admin?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which was never going to happen and even if it did how would they have ever managed the investment to support running costs
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It looks like a pre-packed one.
I assume the plan was secure the stadium for as little as possible and then quickly bung it off along with the club to the highest bidder.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Another angle:
SISU / CCFC pay £600000 per year rent and lose out on some F&B and other money. Double it if you want. Call it £1.5m - doesn’t matter.
One would presume that they don’t have to pay rates, electric, pitch maint (sore subject but hang with me) repairs cleaning etc.
If they paid say, £30m for the arena, the interest would be what? £1.5m per year minimum. Then there’s operating costs.
I believe SISU always wanted the arena on the cheap to revalue like wasps did to plug a hole in their balance sheet.
That 10 year lease was at least some sound business. Without it in a year-to-year? Different story.
SISU / CCFC pay £600000 per year rent and lose out on some F&B and other money. Double it if you want. Call it £1.5m - doesn’t matter.
One would presume that they don’t have to pay rates, electric, pitch maint (sore subject but hang with me) repairs cleaning etc.
If they paid say, £30m for the arena, the interest would be what? £1.5m per year minimum. Then there’s operating costs.
I believe SISU always wanted the arena on the cheap to revalue like wasps did to plug a hole in their balance sheet.
That 10 year lease was at least some sound business. Without it in a year-to-year? Different story.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
No, it looks like he’s agreed to buy the lease pre admin. The council would need to ratify the transfer. Then ACL goes under.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
It wasn’t built exclusively for CCFC but wouldn’t have been built at all were it not for CCFC. It was primarily built for the football club.
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SkyBlueSam01
Well-Known Member
Is it possible the MA is denying any contact with SISU so that some of the people who have influence over these things are on board with his bid?
Nick
Administrator
So he's paying 35m for the lease from the bond holders?
I tell you what if we come out with the stadium and club combined having broke away from paying a silly amount of rent in a ground we don't own I will go as far to say it's been worth it. I have also enjoyed the success and the good brand of football that has been built.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
Yeah she was told 10 days ago it was going into admin unless a buyer was found… she opted to wait too long
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Or whatever figure they’ve agreed to remove their charge (like a bank would on a mortgaged house)
If it’s £35m then the Trustee Bondholders would obliged to remove their charge. Mortgage paid off if you like. You can sell your house to who you like - bomb it - whatever. Your house.
If it’s less, the Trustee to BH must agree to remove. It could be 1% or 99% but they hold the charge. Until it’s “satisfied” then the charge remains - the bank holds your deeds.
It depends what the Trustee Bondholders want.
My guess is that MA has hit £35m plus Compass charge amount meaning that BH get their money and the lease has no “mortgage”
£35-£40m might be the right number for the arena complex. Derby ground was £20m without hotels etc. maybe £40m works for Ashley. (Plus fabled dilapidations liability)
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
You are correct she’s an ogress.
Nick
Administrator
Which then begs the question, is it really worth £35 to £40m? If it is, why the big struggle to refinance using it as security?
I know it's all speculation at the minute but I can't see him paying full whack to clear the debts.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Or Frasers group has somehow acted to refinance the Bonds.
Not sure how that would work - greater minds than mine might know - it’ll take some thinking.
Not sure how that would work - greater minds than mine might know - it’ll take some thinking.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
I can’t, I’d imagine he’s offered maybe 20p in the £ and the trustee has accepted, couldn’t raise the funds to market and therefore best deal they could get
Happy_Martian
Well-Known Member
Mike Ashley being involved leaves me with 2 guesses.
1) Sports Direct already have a lot of stores but I'd bet the majority of their sales are online. So it's not unfeasible that they could need a new warehouse and the CBS is good for motorway access
2) As others have said, CCC have effectively set up the public to expect that they would never allow SiSu to get their hands on a lease. In steps Ashley, buys the lease causing celebrations in the Council chambers. CCC are so happy, they all have a month long piss up and are too drunk or hungover to see MA promptly sell his lease to SiSu
Yeah, I have no clue about this (think I'm worse at the finances than predicting scores) but when life keeps gifting you lemons, only thing you can do is laugh.
1) Sports Direct already have a lot of stores but I'd bet the majority of their sales are online. So it's not unfeasible that they could need a new warehouse and the CBS is good for motorway access
2) As others have said, CCC have effectively set up the public to expect that they would never allow SiSu to get their hands on a lease. In steps Ashley, buys the lease causing celebrations in the Council chambers. CCC are so happy, they all have a month long piss up and are too drunk or hungover to see MA promptly sell his lease to SiSu
Yeah, I have no clue about this (think I'm worse at the finances than predicting scores) but when life keeps gifting you lemons, only thing you can do is laugh.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
As I’ve said before: I doubt he’ll be taking on full debts since there could be cross claims involving Wasps etc.
Nick
Administrator
That's the thing, so many of the bondholders have heard nothing at all seemingly.
1ccfc
Well-Known Member
You mean you've not covered it? Great! You had one job. Well, if this all goes south, we know who to blame
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Not really much from joy to be fair. Just titbits of interesting times and no news etc. as I say I’ve no doubt any exclusive info would be shared through reputable channels not some 51 year old bloke who reached out once to have a chat
Isn't it as simple as there were 20 days of NOI where they could have got involved but didn't because it wasn't obvious any more that Ashley was in after first talking to Wasps nearly two months ago?
So their choice decision was that a full on administration was on the cards.But. by then names appeared to drive the appearance of interest, turns out maybe one or two were over their pay grade?
I mean we were all surprised the admin didn't come on Monday and it was a surprise we all heard about us actually contributing to that position of extending that period of NOI.
As far as and along with that where did the info come from that we funded that and subsequent search for elsewhere to play?
Hasn't all that come from the administrator ACL and the CCFC ends?
Once that game was passed at two o'clock on Monday they must have known as someone was funding things?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure who you're on about there Pete
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
You can’t actually bomb it / burn it. It’s still arson even if it’s your own house.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
To answer first bit, HSBC were in effect refinancing the whole of ACL with just the arena as security with other charge holders etc. Messy
HSBC might have needed, say 7% int plus capital over 20 years. What’s that on 35m? 2.5m int plus 1.75m capital?
4.25m per year?
Think like a mortgage. It’s affordability that they measure.
Could Wasps and its bits and bobs, losing millions, afford 4 million per year?
Getting 0.6-1.5m from Cov (who are ranting about their own ground) isn’t stable income if you are a bank
4million or whatever is one thing, imagine interest rates go up, dilapidations go up, TV money stops, gambling advertisements stop.
That’s why HSBC ducked out. Too risky.
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Ah yes, the good old telltale 10° spin…..
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Fact remains that literally nothing was stopping Sisu making a bid, just like last time. If they'd actually bid and failed I'd be with you, but all along they've said they don't want it. Maybe they were telling the truth?
How do demolitions happen then?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Doesn't bode well for our new stadium, does it? I'm starting to worry that might not be a genuine plan...
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
“The Council” is a machine. The machine operators are lunatics - if you haven’t worked that out already.
Egotistical, vain, lunatics.
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