Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (30 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

Well they have already got 52% of it back across all the interest payments I suppose

That's it. At a time where plodding along leaving your money in a bank would struggle to have got any return, it seems the high risk gamble would fail, but not as spectacularly as it could have done...

 

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[jordan210]

That's it. At a time where plodding along leaving your money in a bank would struggle to have got any return, it seems the high risk gamble would fail, but not as spectacularly as it could have done...

Wasn't it suppose to be low risk. As no retail bond has gone tits up before.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I think this could be the first of many offers to the bondholders,

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wasn't it suppose to be low risk. As no retail bond has gone tits up before.

The interest rate said anything but low risk.

 

[SHUNT31]

What is stopping another party publicly coming out and offering a better deal to bondholders? Would this have an effect on the court decision on Thursday?

 

[chiefdave]

The trustee today confirmed that the offer for the property is £15.8m + £1.2m non- refundable exclusivity fee.

Are they pissing money away? If Ashely has paid a £1.2m exclusivity fee why the need to threaten the football club the ground would be locked up if they didn't put more money in?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The problem the bondholders have is that they invested on the basis of a valuation of the assets which has been shown to be inaccurate or based on too many optimistic assumptions. Its valuation now is different. Not sure what they're expecting legally?

 

[chiefdave]

Rumours were NEC, the only other bidder, was outbid, so less you’d expect?

Has the NEC ever actually been confirmed as bidding? There was some rumoured interest but for all we know that could have been as little as a phone call and being told the Ashley bid was already well down the line.

It seems to have morphed in some peoples minds to a bidding war between Ashley and the NEC until the NEC have up and walked away.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Has the NEC ever actually been confirmed as bidding? There was some rumoured interest but for all we know that could have been as little as a phone call and being told the Ashley bid was already well down the line.

It seems to have morphed in some peoples minds to a bidding war between Ashley and the NEC until the NEC have up and walked away.

I think they started it. Must have been a nominal lowbal offer and when Ashley gazumped them, they didn’t fancy it

 

[Nick]

What is stopping another party publicly coming out and offering a better deal to bondholders? Would this have an effect on the court decision on Thursday?

I think it depends on the Trustee doesn't it, who seems likely to agree to it?

Also, doesn't it need Compass to agree to remove the charge?

Then if it was to say "Bondholders, don't agree to it and we will give you x pence in the pound" then it means the same person needs to be sold the lease from the Council.

 

[shepardo01]

Has the NEC ever actually been confirmed as bidding? There was some rumoured interest but for all we know that could have been as little as a phone call and being told the Ashley bid was already well down the line.

It seems to have morphed in some peoples minds to a bidding war between Ashley and the NEC until the NEC have up and walked away.

The NEC group were the first to show interest - and it was solid interest to the point that CCC wanted to do a deal. Then Ashley came along...

 

[oldfiver]

What is Byng trying to say?

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Where is he saying this

 

[hutch1972]

The interest rate said anything but low risk.

Wasn't it suppose to be low risk. As no retail bond has gone tits up before.

Any bond which has no cover, is always high risk. The type of bond they had was subject to an FCA investigation only a short time back.

 

[skyblueeyesrevisited]

So you think Reeves wanting to throw £30m of tax payer money at them is the better option?

Probably is for Reeves

 

[Sick Boy]

You think/know that Ashley wants Wasps?

He's shown more interest in them than us so far.

 

[Grendel]

That's it. At a time where plodding along leaving your money in a bank would struggle to have got any return, it seems the high risk gamble would fail, but not as spectacularly as it could have done...

Not really

The prospectus clearly laid out security of the lease and Eastwood in an interview confirmed also the P Share as security

With an independent valuation at £51 million the risk is not huge

This seems to actually remove the security so other creditors also get a share which is deviating from the offer. Can't think who might be getting a payout he wouldn't if someone else purchased it

 

[Nick]

Not really

The prospectus clearly laid out security of the lease and Eastwood in an interview confirmed also the P Share as security

With an independent valuation at £51 million the risk is not huge

This seems to actually remove the security so other creditors also get a share which is deviating from the offer. Can't think who might be getting a payout he wouldn't if someone else purchased it

"As long as though they are getting their interest paid, which they are, and they have proper security for the bond which is in the context of this place and also the P shares, as they call it, they've got more than enough cover.

Yep, you would think they will also be after the P shares. Unless the charge over them is removed too.

Just depends on the Trustee I think?

 

[oldfiver]

Not really

The prospectus clearly laid out security of the lease and Eastwood in an interview confirmed also the P Share as security

With an independent valuation at £51 million the risk is not huge

This seems to actually remove the security so other creditors also get a share which is deviating from the offer. Can't think who might be getting a payout he wouldn't if someone else purchased it

The P shares are not security but any proceeds of sale are. So until sold the BH must wait

The ACL nominated Receivers have said they have no control over the P shares

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not really

The prospectus clearly laid out security of the lease and Eastwood in an interview confirmed also the P Share as security

With an independent valuation at £51 million the risk is not huge

This seems to actually remove the security so other creditors also get a share which is deviating from the offer. Can't think who might be getting a payout he wouldn't if someone else purchased it

I know you might point to an independent valuation but you'd surely need to have a look at the basis of it? Why did it conclude the arena to be valued at £51m? What assumptions was the valuation based on?

 

[Nick]

I know you might point to an independent valuation but you'd surely need to have a look at the basis of it? Why did it conclude the arena to be valued at £51m? What assumptions was the valuation based on?

Isn't that fraud if they are getting non realistic valuations to raise finance?

 

[Nick]

Also, now that the amount is public I wonder if any of the other bids or offers would be made public?

Will they say who is going to be involved with it or wait until it's gone through?

 

[chiefdave]

I know you might point to an independent valuation but you'd surely need to have a look at the basis of it? Why did it conclude the arena to be valued at £51m? What assumptions was the valuation based on?

I've always had concerns about the valuation, it never seemed right to me but others insisted it was.

I'm with Grendel here, if the bond total is £35m and you've been told there's security of £51m which has been independently verified you could reasonably expect to get your £35m back if it all goes tits up.

They're now looking at an offer from Ashely that's 30% of the amount previously stated in the valuation. And they won't be getting all of that.

I recall reading one of the valuations and there was a lot of this is based on information provided by Wasps that hasn't been verified type statements. The whole thing seems dodgy to say the least but you would assume the lawyers looked over everything to ensure they stayed on just the right side of the line.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Isn't that fraud if they are getting non realistic valuations to raise finance?

No, the valuation was done in accordance with the RICS codes of practice, part of it included some cashflow forecasts from WH but the valuers would take that in good faith I suspect.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've always had concerns about the valuation, it never seemed right to me but others insisted it was.

I'm with Grendel here, if the bond total is £35m and you've been told there's security of £51m which has been independently verified you could reasonably expect to get your £35m back if it all goes tits up.

They're now looking at an offer from Ashely that's 30% of the amount previously stated in the valuation. And they won't be getting all of that.

I recall reading one of the valuations and there was a lot of this is based on information provided by Wasps that hasn't been verified type statements. The whole thing seems dodgy to say the least but you would assume the lawyers looked over everything to ensure they stayed on just the right side of the line.

there is a big subject to in it though:

 

[Nick]

 

[SkyblueDad]

Also, now that the amount is public I wonder if any of the other bids or offers would be made public?

Will they say who is going to be involved with it or wait until it's gone through?

The Americans for instance ?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Also, now that the amount is public I wonder if any of the other bids or offers would be made public?

Will they say who is going to be involved with it or wait until it's gone through?

Again - if SISU stay silent… the better

 

[The Philosopher]

Are they pissing money away? If Ashely has paid a £1.2m exclusivity fee why the need to threaten the football club the ground would be locked up if they didn't put more money in?

1.2m sounds like 1m plus VAT to the administrator to me to try to get the stadium on the cheap.

Administrators = crooked. Never met à straight one.

 

[shmmeee]

Again - if SISU stay silent… the better

Are they staying silent if Byng is all over Twitter and talking to the Tomes?

 

[Nick]

Again - if SISU stay silent… the better

Guessing it will be until it's confirmed one way or the other.

If / when it's all sold and sealed to Ashley and Co then there's no chance of liquidation so more will come out.

 

[oldfiver]

The Americans for instance ?

Chinese if Byng involved?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

1.2m sounds like 1m plus VAT to the administrator to me to try to get the stadium on the cheap.

Administrators = crooked. Never met à straight one.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Guessing it will be until it's confirmed one way or the other.

If / when it's all sold and sealed to Ashley and Co then there's no chance of liquidation so more will come out.

Be interested to see if this goes tits up and ACL get liquidated…. Wonder how SISU will back out of that one

 

[Nick]

Be interested to see if this goes tits up and ACL get liquidated…. Wonder how SISU will back out of that one

I'm starting to think ACL being liquidated is the best option for us.

Hopefully it would open it up to more potential people who would then want to have the club too and effectively a fresh start with it all.

 

[SkyblueDad]

How real is this Byng bloke and how dangerous is his supposed bid/interest to MAs apparent preferred bid status.