fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Website hosting?
Wasps administrators report (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter MalcSB
- Start date
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Well not really as the debt would be to the credit card company. They've just not paid invoices.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Quite a lot of Birmingham based companies providing standard services so I reckon you're right
Happy_Martian
Well-Known Member
What annoys me most is that the biggest creditor is themselves (or Wasps Finance PLC officially) to the sum of almost £29,000,000. So even after Wasps have shafted all the other creditors, if there's any payout from the admin, they'll still get some money back.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
No they won't, Wasps Finance was just the conduit for the bond money nothing else. The £29m represents the gap between the £6m or so the bondholders are getting and the debt.
Happy_Martian
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the clarification. As I've said previously, I'm terrible at money and legals so I should really stay off these threads.
@Nick can you limit my posting privileges to football threads only ? Though some may say I'm just as crap on them as well
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Good luck to Yorkshire cricket club they will need it with Vaughan about
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
sure someone with a connection to Wasps mentioned they were getting consultants in to do work knowing perfectly well there was no money to pay them
to me it seems they were trading insolently but I doubt its enough for any action to be taken
Mcbean
Well-Known Member
Chief I think they have been very insolent !
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Covid.
Nick
Administrator
There's a few different pitch related companies.
jordan210
Well-Known Member
Basically was a case of use a company then don't pay and move on to the next company and rinse and repeat
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Itll be AWS costs, that’s like a months bill for some companies (it’s about a week for mine).
jordan210
Well-Known Member
from wasps forum.....
"Covid crapped on all our planned multiple income streams. It is impossible to guess, but if the pandemic and associated lockdowns didn't happen, would our future have been different? I believe the answer to that is a resounding YES."
jim20
Well-Known Member
that wasps fan is delusional, looking at all of the debts at some point they would have gone under, maybe not this year but within the next 5 years they would’ve gone if Covid hadn’t have happened. They would have never got the income streams up to cover the debts
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Haha, delusional aren't they?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I mean tbf it is undoubtedly true that covid impacted Wasps' cashflow to a significant extent, but the underlying debt against the unrealistic projections were going to bite at some point. Covid brought it forward maybe but offset against CCFC returning to the Arena in 2021 with average gates at a level twice what they were 2014-2019.
But how much Government and RFU support did they get? Never mentioned!
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Did Covid really have that much of an impact?
Obviously they had to play behind closed doors and were down on income streams but a lot of their staffing costs would have been covered by the furlough scheme and they were in receipt of a £12m load from sport England as well as central support from the RFU.
Obviously they had to play behind closed doors and were down on income streams but a lot of their staffing costs would have been covered by the furlough scheme and they were in receipt of a £12m load from sport England as well as central support from the RFU.
Wrongful or fraudulent trading is known to be difficult to prove. If Hsbc were considering the refinance (think I said at the time this was crazy as the arena just wasn’t worth enough) then the directors would argue before that was ‘ok’ as they had a potential solvent solution. I’d imagine any credit/debt incurred after knowing the refinance wasn’t happening could cause them problems
To me it just looks like the whole venture was unviable from day one and the fact directors, bank, CCC, hmrc, bond holders etc etc didn’t, is a bit worrying
duffer
Well-Known Member
The sort of fucking idiot that sends money to Nigerian Princes who email him out of the blue, no doubt.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Way beyond delusional, anyone who believed that load of rubbish is in the middle of a psychotic break of some kind. I suspect they dress as Napoleon and try not to listen to the voices coming out of the plug sockets telling them to do bad things.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
my take on it
I cant help thinking that the presentation is overly complex because you have to be careful what you are looking at and which company it refers to. Also why have a joint report at all. They chose to do it that way
The administrators have correctly treated each company as stand alone then lumped them all together in one report why?. Easy to miss things
The effect of treating each as stand alone is that both ACL companies are liable for the full amount outstanding on the charges from bondholders & Compass. If you wanted to calculate the overall deficit for the ACL sub group you would only include those charges once.
Also the inter company group balances appear to me to have been created to some degree. Why didnt wasps finance lend the money directly to ACL not put it through wasps holdings?
I cant help wondering if the priority of the group was to keep the deficit as low as possible on the rugby side and not have the group cash flow to pay ACL sub group liabilities. Cant tell so its not a claim or accusation. By keeping the liabilities on the rugby club low then it allows a picture of a solventish club hard hit by Covid and dragged down by the stadium
Question now that ACL group has cleared the bond by 18% Compass waived their charge does that mean wasps rugby are effectively off the hook ?
I am sure there is a lot i am not picking up on. It all doesnt feel right to me some how
I cant help thinking that the presentation is overly complex because you have to be careful what you are looking at and which company it refers to. Also why have a joint report at all. They chose to do it that way
The administrators have correctly treated each company as stand alone then lumped them all together in one report why?. Easy to miss things
The effect of treating each as stand alone is that both ACL companies are liable for the full amount outstanding on the charges from bondholders & Compass. If you wanted to calculate the overall deficit for the ACL sub group you would only include those charges once.
Also the inter company group balances appear to me to have been created to some degree. Why didnt wasps finance lend the money directly to ACL not put it through wasps holdings?
I cant help wondering if the priority of the group was to keep the deficit as low as possible on the rugby side and not have the group cash flow to pay ACL sub group liabilities. Cant tell so its not a claim or accusation. By keeping the liabilities on the rugby club low then it allows a picture of a solventish club hard hit by Covid and dragged down by the stadium
Question now that ACL group has cleared the bond by 18% Compass waived their charge does that mean wasps rugby are effectively off the hook ?
I am sure there is a lot i am not picking up on. It all doesnt feel right to me some how
Did Compass "waive" or was there not enough from the Asset sale. Their charge recognises the BH charge takes prioritymy take on it
I cant help thinking that the presentation is overly complex because you have to be careful what you are looking at and which company it refers to. Also why have a joint report at all. They chose to do it that way
The administrators have correctly treated each company as stand alone then lumped them all together in one report why?. Easy to miss things
The effect of treating each as stand alone is that both ACL companies are liable for the full amount outstanding on the charges from bondholders & Compass. If you wanted to calculate the overall deficit for the ACL sub group you would only include those charges once.
Also the inter company group balances appear to me to have been created to some degree. Why didnt wasps finance lend the money directly to ACL not put it through wasps holdings?
I cant help wondering if the priority of the group was to keep the deficit as low as possible on the rugby side and not have the group cash flow to pay ACL sub group liabilities. Cant tell so its not a claim or accusation. By keeping the liabilities on the rugby club low then it allows a picture of a solventish club hard hit by Covid and dragged down by the stadium
Question now that ACL group has cleared the bond by 18% Compass waived their charge does that mean wasps rugby are effectively off the hook ?
I am sure there is a lot i am not picking up on. It all doesnt feel right to me some how
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
If they hadn’t waived wouldn’t that have been brought up at the court hearing recently? I am but an idiot on the internet but I though that was to remove any charges not just the bondholders. So by not objecting there Compass waived their charge didn’t they?
fatso
Well-Known Member
Doesn't acount the millions required for urgent maintaining.
And a valuation is only a number plucked out of thin air, a true value is what someone is actually prepared to pay, not some total BS figure that some no mark comes up with after the sale is concluded.
Fwaw, I was ready to pay £30 million and had 6 players lined up, but I got stiffed right up!
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
This is on page 26 of the report
"Compass, as second ranking secured creditor, provided its release of security for the sale to the Purchaser."
whatever made them, the charge was released so the sale could take place. But no they were not going to get anything
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Criminal.
Wankers.
Wankers.
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
Once again oldskyblue58 thanks for your knowledge i notice at the end of post 96 you say"i am sure there is a lot i am not picking up on".If you don't what chance have us mere mortals.One thing i find strange is it looks as though they have been trading insolvent for a while.Will anybody face charges for this
tisza
Well-Known Member
Same multiple streams as they had access to in the non-COVID years? The Sport England money stopped them going under during COVID. At no stage had they put themselves in a position to repay the bond.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I mean we all said at the time, to find profit growth beyond the value of the interest payments was unrealistic, thankfully Mary Mungo Midge told us all how brilliant Nick Eastwood was so we were wrong.