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Deleted member 5849
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Yup. Somewhere, sometime, people need to understand a good service costs.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (169 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s also not having an obsession with instant cost. Take house building for example: obviously local councils building and renting houses is cost effective in the long term and possibly even a money maker, but if CCC got to spend £100m on building social housing the likes of Reid and Gilbert would have a field day about the sums involved. We saw this a bit with TWW, I’m agnostic on it as a project (I haven’t looked enough into it) but the reason for the spend was never reported because “council brings waste management in house” is not as exciting headlines as “council spends sum with lots of zeroes in it”. Same with the CBS story which really should have been about any involvement with Ashley and instead because about a nothingburger cos it’s easier to get flashy headlines about.
There obviously need to be oversight (see that council that went bust or the PPE scandals) but it feels like right now we don’t scrutinise where we should and overscrutinise where we shouldn’t.
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Deleted member 5849
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It's always a lazy line with councils though. I mean we've seen it recently. Sure, criticise Martin Reeves's competence or otherwise for the job he was doing, but the salary for the job he was doing was actually not that much, relative to elsewhere and similar responsibilities!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The problem with these independent pay review bodies is they tend to be stacked with venture capitalists who have no grip of reality in the sector they're recommending a pay award for. I think the one for the teachers said to our union 'you'll get that pay rise over my dead body'.
They need to return to being collectively bargained between the bodies recognised to represent whichever work force it is, and the government.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I see Gullis is spreading his pearls of wisdom again. Claiming that the clergy shouldn’t preach from the pulpit. Scary that this guy used to be a teacher. The best thing that ever happened to the education system is this guy becoming an MP, it keeps him away from kids.
They being independent shouldn't be under terms set from the boss then!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Worth reading the whole thread
If history is anything to go by Sunak is on a hiding to nowhere with his and his government’s stance.
If history is anything to go by Sunak is on a hiding to nowhere with his and his government’s stance.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He would probably be up before a panel if he were still in the profession and making similar comments
stupot07
Well-Known Member
The Sun, Daily Mail and Express readers will just say ita bollocks, that the NHS has enough money but just wastes it on managers, despite the fact managers make up just 2% of the NHS companies with 9% of the general workforce population.
Is the NHS overmanaged?
An in-depth look at one of the most persistent questions on NHS management.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Thats nonsense. There are some really talented managers in the NHS. The reason is consultants get brought in as there's not enough managers in the NHS to deliver fundamental transformation whilst trying to not drown with the day to day operational pressures.
What other huge business would be able to function with such little management?
Is the NHS overmanaged?
An in-depth look at one of the most persistent questions on NHS management.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The Sun, Daily Mail and Express readers will just say ita bollocks, that the NHS has enough money but just wastes it on managers, despite the fact managers make up just 2% of the NHS companies with 9% of the general workforce population.
Is the NHS overmanaged?
An in-depth look at one of the most persistent questions on NHS management.www.nhsconfed.org
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Just looking at circulation figures and those three combined clock in at less than 2m readers. Honestly think we need to stop giving them more credit than they deserve and hopefully the likes of the BBC will follow.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
That doesn't include online, or via Facebook or twitter, etc.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Fair, but I think the online news site market is far more balanced: Top 50 UK newsbrands: Reach regionals dominate fastest-growing lists in October
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Thats nonsense. There are some really talented managers in the NHS. The reason is consultants get brought in as there's not enough managers in the NHS to deliver fundamental transformation whilst trying to not drown with the day to day operational pressures.
What other huge business would be able to function with such little management?
Is the NHS overmanaged?
An in-depth look at one of the most persistent questions on NHS management.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
I work for a quasi private entity and we basically do consultancy work that your average Trust or CCG/ICB should have the capacity to do but do not because:
1. Trust staff are too busy on the day to day firefighting as they're massively under resourced
2. When CCGs (now ICB) were created by the Tory government they had a statutory limit of a ridiculously small percentage of budget they could spend on admin (can't remember what it was). Which lead to them using programme budgets to fund extra staff leading to high turnover and a lack of continuity.
Thats nonsense. There are some really talented managers in the NHS. The reason is consultants get brought in as there's not enough managers in the NHS to deliver fundamental transformation whilst trying to not drown with the day to day operational pressures.
What other huge business would be able to function with such little management?
Is the NHS overmanaged?
An in-depth look at one of the most persistent questions on NHS management.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
Yeah, of course there are going to be good, talented people working in NHS management. From what I’ve read, seen and heard there’s also a lot of people who struggle to make decisions and don’t drive change. Which to be fair is like a lot of other organisations. Even basics like some patient processes just don’t make sense. You need people at the very top to ensure change happens. I might be wrong but I get the impression there might not always be the capability or will.
I’ll leave it there as I’ve banged on about my thoughts before. Nhs needs more funding yes, however, there needs to be some significant changes to make it work properly again
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You would of course get more buy-in to changes if you boost funding significantly at the same time. If you don't, it looks like you're just making excuses and looking for fall guys because you're unable / unwilling to fund it more. And, tbf, that's probably what's happening!
Guy just on five live quoting just £11.95
For.1st years?
rob9872
Well-Known Member
The only paramedic i know personally earns more than the post I listed, but of course can't speak for all. I'd be surprised based on that but I have no real point of reference.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
For the job they do, it doesn't seem great tbh.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Arguably not, but they are citing that they can't afford to live on it. A little insulting when many of the people they serve earn significantly less. My wife as an example earns half that as a Nanny. Less skilled, less important I grant, but works for a Consultant Anesthetist who couldn't work without childcare. Not complaining at her wage btw, we think it's fair, but to suggest they can't afford to live at that level feels a bit disingenuous. Worth more I wouldnt dispute, but that isnt the argument.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I doubt it as 40k is Band 7 AfC, most paramedics are Band 5 and Band 6 (similar to nurses). Not that the base salary is even particularly relevant to the desire to keep pace with the cost of living.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Job advertisements of course famous for their accuracy when it comes to the salary displayed.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Why go to Indeed when the pay bands are publicly available?
Paramedics are Band 5 or Band 6:
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Could be who knows. I saw the protest on the news and as it referenced Coventry I simply googled 'average paramedic salary Coventry' and clicked on the top link. You can do the same and rightly or wrongly, without evidence to the contrary I'm more inclined to take that as fact than you telling me otherwise. If you have an alternative link please post it.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Your wife deserves more.
There is one profession whose salary has rose very generously in the last couple of decades, can you guess who it is?
Takeaways , currently the gov't would seem to prefer breaking the contract structure of all employees within health .
Secondly wait for April to address an apparently better outcome from their viewpoint .
Create the impression category 2 is somehow not covered adequately.
Secondly wait for April to address an apparently better outcome from their viewpoint .
Create the impression category 2 is somehow not covered adequately.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You really need to improve your internet literacy (unsurprisingly)
Agenda for change - pay rates
Band 1 (Please note that following the 2018 pay deal, band 1 closed to new entrants from 1 December 2018). £23,615 Examples of roles at band 1 - domestic support worker, housekeeping assistant, driver and nursery assistant. Band 2 < 2 years' experience £23,615 2+ years £23,615 Examples of roles...
Plumber's) Builder's.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes
Agenda for change - pay rates
Band 1 (Please note that following the 2018 pay deal, band 1 closed to new entrants from 1 December 2018). £23,615 Examples of roles at band 1 - domestic support worker, housekeeping assistant, driver and nursery assistant. Band 2 < 2 years' experience £23,615 2+ years £23,615 Examples of roles...
Paramedics start at Band 5 (£27k) and move up to Band 6 with experience, a paramedic with 5> years of experience would reach £40k salary
By the way, worth pointing out that not all people in ambulances are Paramedics which is a more qualified role, I think it's usually a Paramedic and an Emergency Medical Technician and their max salary is £32k (top of Band 5).
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Possibly more accurate. The only reference I have is a friend of ours who has done it for years so is more likely to be at the top of that pay structure, although it did say based on 76 returns, so presumably a number of longstanding employees if that is base average on the link I posted.Yes
Agenda for change - pay rates
Band 1 (Please note that following the 2018 pay deal, band 1 closed to new entrants from 1 December 2018). £23,615 Examples of roles at band 1 - domestic support worker, housekeeping assistant, driver and nursery assistant. Band 2 < 2 years' experience £23,615 2+ years £23,615 Examples of roles...www.healthcareers.nhs.uk
Paramedics start at Band 5 (£27k) and move up to Band 6 with experience, a paramedic with 5> years of experience would reach £40k salary
By the way, worth pointing out that not all people in ambulances are Paramedics which is a more qualified role, I think it's usually a Paramedic and an Emergency Medical Technician and their max salary is £32k (top of Band 5).
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I mean you seem to be trying to work backwards from a conclusion that the strikes are wrong and paramedics are already paid enough. Which is fine, but it's not very subtle and tells me you won't trust whatever data goes against that preconception