Gyokeres to Everton- Two in exchange? (4 Viewers)

[ms639]

So we'd have a loan and Waghorn, hoping for Godden to stay fit. Just looks like a really bad idea.

The reality is, MR and co will be planning for Gyokeres’ departure, if we don’t bring in the money we desperately need we’re never going to break into the next tier of championship teams. We’re a mid - lower mid table championship team and unless we start to build a proper squad fit for this league it will continue to be on a wing on a prayer that we do anything.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

The reality is, MR and co will be planning for Gyokeres’ departure, if we don’t bring in the money we desperately need we’re never going to break into the next tier of championship teams. We’re a mid - lower mid table championship team and unless we start to build a proper squad fit for this league it will continue to be on a wing on a prayer that we do anything.


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I fully agree he's going now or in the summer. But we don't have enough points on the board, or fit bodies left in the squad, to let him go unless it's for some truly ridiculous fee that sees Robins able to do summer's work now.

Anything else and we need him until the summer. Let him go and fail to adequately cover the absence and an uncomfortable end to the season becomes a dangerous one

 

[CDK]

There was Everton scouts there last night. The one we spoke to was a right miserable old bugger

Probably a scouser

 

[Mcbean]

If you don’t score you get relegated - we have one fit striker !

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

If the scouting team that we’ve had since the L2 days have been shit, how do you explain us being 14th in the Championship?

This is a hill I am going to die on, but I just don't agree with this argument at all. For a club our size to be in League 2, we rightly should be able to attract and recruit players which are above the level. Look at where we are now, in the Championship. We are struggling to put a team out, and didn't have the quality to beat a non-league team. We have a slim budget - granted, but when that is the case, you have a very small margin for error, and we haven't got it right.

We have three or four players which would be regarded as very successful, and a handful after that who have more than done a job. The rest are pretty shite.

This season:

Palmer - Doing alright, but on massive wages but took a big part of our budget on a three year deal which is madness.
Panzo - Probably not a convenient time to discuss him after yesterday.
Doyle - Not good enough in my view.
Adaramolna - Terrible signing.

2021/2022 season:

Gyokeres - Massive success.
Waghorn - Massive disaster.
Bidwell - Success.
Enobakhare - Complete joke.
Moore - Decent for one season, now sinking faster than the titanic.
Kane - Turning out to be a disaster.
Sheaf - Success.
JCS - Reasonable, but was injured half the time.
Maatsen - Made an overall positive impact.

2020/2021 season:

Hamer - Massive success.
Da Costa - Massive disaster.
O'Hare - Massive success.
Walker - Terrible.
Reid - Not good enough.
Hillsner - Not good enough.
Tavares - Not good enough.
Ostigard - Success.
James - Success.
Giles - Made a reasonable impact.


There is a few patches here with players who we loaned out and came back etc, so I might have missed one or two (that includes Kastaneer), but considering our wage budget, there is far far too much shite in there. We have then been handing out long term deals for players that aren't good enough, or renewing contracts of players (granted slightly different issue) which has been mind-boggling.

It isn't only their fault, but the success rate of the recruitment department needs to be better.

 

[SBT]

This is a hill I am going to die on, but I just don't agree with this argument at all. For a club our size to be in League 2, we rightly should be able to attract and recruit players which are above the level. Look at where we are now, in the Championship. We are struggling to put a team out, and didn't have the quality to beat a non-league team. We have a slim budget - granted, but when that is the case, you have a very small margin for error, and we haven't got it right.

We have three or four players which would be regarded as very successful, and a handful after that who have more than done a job. The rest are pretty shite.

This season:

Palmer - Doing alright, but on massive wages but took a big part of our budget on a three year deal which is madness.
Panzo - Probably not a convenient time to discuss him after yesterday.
Doyle - Not good enough in my view.
Adaramolna - Terrible signing.

2021/2022 season:

Gyokeres - Massive success.
Waghorn - Massive disaster.
Bidwell - Success.
Enobakhare - Complete joke.
Moore - Decent for one season, now sinking faster than the titanic.
Kane - Turning out to be a disaster.
Sheaf - Success.
JCS - Reasonable, but was injured half the time.
Maatsen - Made an overall positive impact.

2020/2021 season:

Hamer - Massive success.
Da Costa - Massive disaster.
O'Hare - Massive success.
Walker - Terrible.
Reid - Not good enough.
Hillsner - Not good enough.
Tavares - Not good enough.
Ostigard - Success.
James - Success.
Giles - Made a reasonable impact.


There is a few patches here with players who we loaned out and came back etc, so I might have missed one or two (that includes Kastaneer), but considering our wage budget, there is far far too much shite in there. We have then been handing out long term deals for players that aren't good enough, or renewing contracts of players (granted slightly different issue) which has been mind-boggling.

It isn't only their fault, but the success rate of the recruitment department needs to be better.

For a team on a very limited budget, 12 out of 21 first team signings (i.e. excluding Reid and Tavares) being decent or better seems like a solid return to me, especially considering that three of them were massive successes.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

For a team on a very limited budget, 12 out of 21 first team signings (i.e. excluding Reid and Tavares) being decent or better seems like a solid return to me, especially considering that three of them were massive successes.

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree at all. A circa 50% success rate isn't going to cut it with the budget we have.

 

[chiefdave]

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree at all. A circa 50% success rate isn't going to cut it with the budget we have.

I have no idea what the answer to this is but how does that compare to other clubs?

If it's the norm for other clubs to be hitting a 75% or higher success rate then there's obviously an issue. In we're in and around the same range as other clubs then not sure we can complain to much.

Remember when the budget is small that also means the budget for a good recruitment team is small.

 

[SBT]

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree at all. A circa 50% success rate isn't going to cut it with the budget we have.

It will if you unearth enough massive succcesses, and we've done that three times in three years - hence why we've never really looked in serious danger of falling out of this league. The success rate doesn't really matter if you can pull off that specific trick enough times - it's the name of the game in scouting.

The budget is the biggest problem and will catch up with us eventually, because it's not sustainable to sign a player of Gyokeres or O'Hare's quality on the cheap every year (see: 2022/23). You can change that if you realise some of the gains in value from those massive successes and reinvest, but somewhat oddly we've either chosen not to sell them, or we've failed to do so. Given that selling our big-name players seems like the club's only lifeline atm, without the scouting team we'd be totally fucked right now.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I have no idea what the answer to this is but how does that compare to other clubs?

If it's the norm for other clubs to be hitting a 75% or higher success rate then there's obviously an issue. In we're in and around the same range as other clubs then not sure we can complain to much.

Remember when the budget is small that also means the budget for a good recruitment team is small.

Part of my point is that it is irrelevant what other clubs do unfortunately, we aren't competitive with even a normal budget in the league, so we have to be more efficient to survive. That means we have to exceed the norm. It is a symptom of course, but I think we can all see at the moment that we are struggling this season. Considering the numbers, we have far far too much deadwood in the squad. That is a large part down to the recruitment team.

 

[Balli001]

Part of my point is that it is irrelevant what other clubs do unfortunately, we aren't competitive with even a normal budget in the league, so we have to be more efficient to survive. That means we have to exceed the norm. It is a symptom of course, but I think we can all see at the moment that we are struggling this season. Considering the numbers, we have far far too much deadwood in the squad. That is a large part down to the recruitment team.

You cant talk about budgets then criticise the recruitment team having to work with that same budget. They have to take gambles and not all of them come off

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

You cant talk about budgets then criticise the recruitment team having to work with that same budget. They have to take gambles and not all of them come off

Oh right, so because we have a short budget, the recruitment team can do whatever they want and if they make stupid decisions it isn't their fault?

 

[saveitforthewombles]

Oh right, so because we have a short budget, the recruitment team can do whatever they want and if they make stupid decisions it isn't their fault?

Surely the only measure of effective budget use is progress? Which we've done for 5 years now. We still have one of the lowest budgets in the league....and are a few points off the playoffs.

 

[Grendel]

Surely the only measure of effective budget use is progress? Which we've done for 5 years now. We still have one of the lowest budgets in the league....and are a few points off the playoffs.

most in the league are a few points of the playoffs

the clubs lose league success was build on creating a budget from signing players cheap or academy players and selling at significant profit to fund subsequent purchases

This has been becoming less effective for a while now

 

[Frostie]

most in the league are a few points of the playoffs

the clubs lose league success was build on creating a budget from signing players cheap or academy players and selling at significant profit to fund subsequent purchases

This has been becoming less effective for a while now

Which is probably as you'd expect given the increase in league standing.

This coming summer will be the biggest in many years & could be make or break really. So many out of contract players & others showing they're not up to the level it's going to need an incredible churn all coupled with having a completely new recruitment team.

If we don't have a substantial budget to overhaul (and even then it's no guarantee) we could go backwards.

 

[saveitforthewombles]

most in the league are a few points of the playoffs

the clubs lose league success was build on creating a budget from signing players cheap or academy players and selling at significant profit to fund subsequent purchases

This has been becoming less effective for a while now

They've currently got the most valuable squad in decades - they just haven't sold anyone for a while

 

[CCFC54321]

This is a hill I am going to die on, but I just don't agree with this argument at all. For a club our size to be in League 2, we rightly should be able to attract and recruit players which are above the level. Look at where we are now, in the Championship. We are struggling to put a team out, and didn't have the quality to beat a non-league team. We have a slim budget - granted, but when that is the case, you have a very small margin for error, and we haven't got it right.

We have three or four players which would be regarded as very successful, and a handful after that who have more than done a job. The rest are pretty shite.

This season:

Palmer - Doing alright, but on massive wages but took a big part of our budget on a three year deal which is madness.
Panzo - Probably not a convenient time to discuss him after yesterday.
Doyle - Not good enough in my view.
Adaramolna - Terrible signing.

2021/2022 season:

Gyokeres - Massive success.
Waghorn - Massive disaster.
Bidwell - Success.
Enobakhare - Complete joke.
Moore - Decent for one season, now sinking faster than the titanic.
Kane - Turning out to be a disaster.
Sheaf - Success.
JCS - Reasonable, but was injured half the time.
Maatsen - Made an overall positive impact.

2020/2021 season:

Hamer - Massive success.
Da Costa - Massive disaster.
O'Hare - Massive success.
Walker - Terrible.
Reid - Not good enough.
Hillsner - Not good enough.
Tavares - Not good enough.
Ostigard - Success.
James - Success.
Giles - Made a reasonable impact.


There is a few patches here with players who we loaned out and came back etc, so I might have missed one or two (that includes Kastaneer), but considering our wage budget, there is far far too much shite in there. We have then been handing out long term deals for players that aren't good enough, or renewing contracts of players (granted slightly different issue) which has been mind-boggling.

It isn't only their fault, but the success rate of the recruitment department needs to be better.

I’m on the same hill as you. And speaking to my friends there on the same hill too.

The recruitment at times has been scatter gun and I’m pretty sure robins and vivesh had enough and were happy to see the recruitment team move on.

 

[fatso]

If the scouting team that we’ve had since the L2 days have been shit, how do you explain us being 14th in the Championship?

Simples, we should be second not fucking fourteenth!

 

[Johhny Blue]

This is a hill I am going to die on, but I just don't agree with this argument at all. For a club our size to be in League 2, we rightly should be able to attract and recruit players which are above the level. Look at where we are now, in the Championship. We are struggling to put a team out, and didn't have the quality to beat a non-league team. We have a slim budget - granted, but when that is the case, you have a very small margin for error, and we haven't got it right.

We have three or four players which would be regarded as very successful, and a handful after that who have more than done a job. The rest are pretty shite.

This season:

Palmer - Doing alright, but on massive wages but took a big part of our budget on a three year deal which is madness.
Panzo - Probably not a convenient time to discuss him after yesterday.
Doyle - Not good enough in my view.
Adaramolna - Terrible signing.

2021/2022 season:

Gyokeres - Massive success.
Waghorn - Massive disaster.
Bidwell - Success.
Enobakhare - Complete joke.
Moore - Decent for one season, now sinking faster than the titanic.
Kane - Turning out to be a disaster.
Sheaf - Success.
JCS - Reasonable, but was injured half the time.
Maatsen - Made an overall positive impact.

2020/2021 season:

Hamer - Massive success.
Da Costa - Massive disaster.
O'Hare - Massive success.
Walker - Terrible.
Reid - Not good enough.
Hillsner - Not good enough.
Tavares - Not good enough.
Ostigard - Success.
James - Success.
Giles - Made a reasonable impact.


There is a few patches here with players who we loaned out and came back etc, so I might have missed one or two (that includes Kastaneer), but considering our wage budget, there is far far too much shite in there. We have then been handing out long term deals for players that aren't good enough, or renewing contracts of players (granted slightly different issue) which has been mind-boggling.

It isn't only their fault, but the success rate of the recruitment department needs to be better.

That’s a lot of words to basically say we’re just like every other team.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

That’s a lot of words to basically say we’re just like every other team.

I'm not really sure what the purpose of that comment is to be honest.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree at all. A circa 50% success rate isn't going to cut it with the budget we have.

The lower your budget the more risks you take. In terms of cash outlay it’s significantly higher than 50% as well.

 

[Balli001]

Oh right, so because we have a short budget, the recruitment team can do whatever they want and if they make stupid decisions it isn't their fault?

Of course they make mistakes but thats the nature of the budget and player pool we are playing in. You clearly feel they should get 100% success rate with pennies. Not going to happen.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The lower your budget the more risks you take. In terms of cash outlay it’s significantly higher than 50% as well.

The risks have to be well calculated though. I think with a fair amount of our deadwood at the moment, it hasn't been the case. It's alright to say the recruitment team are operating on restrictions, but that's also their job. They know they aren't working for Man City.

I'm genuinely not surprised we have a new recruitment team for the reasons the poster above has suggested to be honest.

 

[Balli001]

The risks have to be well calculated though. I think with a fair amount of our deadwood at the moment, it hasn't been the case. It's alright to say the recruitment team are operating on restrictions, but that's also their job. They know they aren't working for Man City.

I'm genuinely not surprised we have a new recruitment team for the reasons the poster above has suggested to be honest.

But you fail to give any credit for finding at least 4 players that are now worth millions more than they were purchased for.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Of course they make mistakes but thats the nature of the budget and player pool we are playing in. You clearly feel they should get 100% success rate with pennies. Not going to happen.

At the moment we have a small squad and about 7 or 8 players either bombed out or not good enough. You're telling me there isn't room for improvement there?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

But you fail to give any credit for finding at least 4 players that are now worth millions more than they were purchased for.

I never said there haven't been any successes. Please read what I have written properly.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course they make mistakes but thats the nature of the budget and player pool we are playing in. You clearly feel they should get 100% success rate with pennies. Not going to happen.

We previously were trying to buy cheap and sell high. Then in 2021-22 we signed Bidwell, Kane and Waghorn, all free transfers on high wages, Kasey Palmer same again last summer who this year alone is costing us £1 million if sources are to be believed.

These are not the signings you make if that's your strategy.

 

[PVA]

For every Hilssner there's a Gyokeres. For every Kastaneer there's an O'Hare.

Signing players isn't a perfect science, otherwise no one would ever make a bad signing.

Yeah there's been some shit signings but there's been plenty of good and we've improved league position 5 years in a row, can't be (m)any other teams that can say that.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The risks have to be well calculated though. I think with a fair amount of our deadwood at the moment, it hasn't been the case. It's alright to say the recruitment team are operating on restrictions, but that's also their job. They know they aren't working for Man City.

I'm genuinely not surprised we have a new recruitment team for the reasons the poster above has suggested to be honest.

The recruitment team left of their own account, the weren't dismissed

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The recruitment team left of their own account, the weren't dismissed

Are you an ITK on this?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Are you an ITK on this?

No, Robins basically said as such in one of his interviews. Can't remember which but basically he implied that them leaving came as a surprise.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

No, Robins basically said as such in one of his interviews. Can't remember which but basically he implied that them leaving came as a surprise.

It could mean anything though. Someone on here is claiming it is a bit more sinister than that. We don't really know.

It still doesn't detract that we've signed some terrible players.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It could mean anything though. Someone on here is claiming it is a bit more sinister than that. We don't really know.

It still doesn't detract that we've signed some terrible players.

Sheaf, Hamer, Gyo, Walker, O'Hare-4 successes, one failure

Waghorn, Palmer, Kane, Bidwell, Moore-hmmm

I would be interested to know who made the calls

 

[Frostie]

The recruitment team left of their own account, the weren't dismissed

Correct, it's a promotion to Sporting Director for Badlan. He has also intimated he wasn't happy with a couple of things going on behind the scenes here.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Correct, it's a promotion to Sporting Director for Badlan. He has also intimated he wasn't happy with a couple of things going on behind the scenes here.

Probably scrutiny of his performance, which would tie in with what the other guy is saying.